02/28/1998 City CouncilBarbara Fahey, Mayor
Gary Haakenson, Council President
Dave Earling Councilmember
Tom Miller, Councilmember
Dick Van Hollebeke, Councilmember
John Nordquist, Councilmember
Michael Plunkett, Councilmember
Jim White, Councilmember
Art Housler, Adm. Serv. Director
Brent Hunter, Human Resources Director
Paul Mar, Community Serv. Director
Police Chief Robin Hickok
Fire Chief Michael Springer
Arvilla Ohlde, Parks & Rec Director
Noel Miller, Public Works Director
Dee McGrath, Executive Assistant to Mayor
Jana Spellman, Recorder
Scott Snyder, City Attorney
EXEGVTIVE SESSION
Saturday 8:30 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. ,
Mr. Synder's presentation centered on proper procedures and confidentiality during executive
sessions as well as general protocol procedures during regular Council Meetings and outside of
Council Meetings.
A general question and answer period occurred during and after his presentation.
Mr. Snyder left after this presentation.
CO�JNCTL /STAFF COMIVIUI�TICATION
Council President Haakenson stated this topic had been requested by several people. He
continued that at times the Council was not sure they had been clear in requesting information
from staff and wanted to discuss this topic to ensure that everyone was on the same page when
information was requested.
Councilmember Earling made a suggestion that all Councilmembers be on e-mail so that when
Councilmembers needed updates on certain items or staff needed to be in touch with
Councilmembers, they would be able to complete an item in a timely fashion and would not have
to play phone tag.
A general discussion ensued regarding e-mail and it was the general consensus it was indeed
necessary and the following Councilmembers have e -mail addresses: Gary Haakenson, Tom
Miller, Dick Van Hollebeke, Dave Earling, and Jim White. John Nordquist still prefers to get his
messages by fax machine.
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 12
1
Updates to the Council were discussed. It was suggested that when the Council asks for
something during a Council Meeting that the City Clerk schedule it and track it. Brent Hunter
suggested that there are software programs available that could be used for this type of tracking
system.
A broad discussion followed.
A very comprehensive discussion ensued regarding what was required to satisfy both staff and
Council in preparation of materials presented to Council and other defined needs.
Mayor Fahey did reiterate that the Council should call directors with their questions and requests
and try to refrain from going to the staff directly. In that manner the director can establish a time
line for their staff to complete the task. She further explained that if a Councilmember calls
directly, it may take the staff member off a specific task for which they have a higher priority
deadline. The point was made that if a Councilmember did call with a specific request and it was
of a personal nature, that was to be clearly stated.
Paul Mar asked that if a discussion before the Council does become heated, there could be a de-
escalation period at which time the Mayor gives the staff a directive of what is needed and for the
staff to clarify with the Council exactly what Council is asking staff to do.
There was a general consensus that during the past two years the system has been working fairly
well but suggestions are always welcomed.
PRODUCTIVITY OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS
Councilmember Nordquist suggested that this item be put on the agenda explaining that these
committees and boards are comprised of volunteer citizens and sometimes these volunteers feel
that the Council really has no knowledge that the boards or commissions really exist. He felt it
might be appropriate if a Councilmember. would visit one of these meetings and compliment
these people on a job well done. He further discussed the fact that sometimes it would be good
to revisit whether a board, commission, or committee has outlived its usefulness and whether
others need to be added. He suggested that if the Council knew someone who would be
beneficial to a board or commission to speak to that individual to see if they would volunteer.
He concluded that he felt it was a very important integral part of the system and should be
recognized as such.
At the end of Mr. Nordquist's presentation, Council President Haakenson asked to add the
Summer Market program to the Agenda. A discussion ensued regarding the Summer Market and
whether they wanted to move the location to Main Street and if not, would it be possible to hold
special events downtown which would entail closing off a portion of Main Street to traffic.
Mayor Fahey asked Mr. Mar to research the issue and bring the issue to the Community Services
Committee. There was a general discussion after which Mayor Fahey asked for a clarification of
the various subjects discussed and a question and answer period followed.
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 13
Mayor Fahey began by explaining that her original thought was to have a free discussion with the
Council to give her some kind of sense on what the Council would like to see her ideally looking
for in a Fire Chief before advertising for the position takes place.
She further explained that between the time this subject was put on the agenda and the time the
Council Retreat occurred, she had a meeting with Chauncey Sauer from Fire District 111 and she
wanted the Council to know that he had made a proposal that the City of Edmonds contract for a
Fire Chief from Fire District 111 until the consolidation study is completed; and if the
consolidation study indicates that we move forward with consolidation that-it would be feasible
that this person be retained under contract until the process is worked through. She wanted to let
the Council know that this was an option instead of hiring a new Fire Chief.
The Mayor further stated that when Chauncey Sauer .talked to the Mayor regarding this issue, he
mentioned the name of Steve Mace. She clarified that Steve Mace was the acting Fire Chief for
Fire District 1 when 111 went through the process of merging and ultimately Steve Mace, of his
own choice, became a Battalion Commander. She continued that she had worked with Steve
over the last two years and has a very high regard for him and from her perspective he was a
person she hoped might be a candidate for the permanent position for Chief. She followed by
saying that it was not going to happen because she since realized that he is at a point where he is
preparing for retirement and does not want that kind of a role. She further elucidated that she had
a conversation with Tom (Miller) this morning, and found out that Steve Mace had indicated he
was really not interested in moving into that role.
Subsequent to her conversations with Chauncey, she attempted to try and get a sense of how the
firemen would feel about the issue and she indicated that she started out by talking with Chief
Springer. She stated that Chief Springer's first reaction was very positive about the possibility of
contracting for a Chief. He saw a lot of benefits to it. When she discussed the downside of this
issue, Chief Springer acknowledged that it puts Edmonds Fire Department into another level of
uncertainty and he didn't know how well the men would respond to it. She further stated that she
had spoken to Kevin Taylor who has assured her that he thinks he could hold the Department
together as an Acting Chief if the City has not resolved the issue by the time Chief Springer
leaves. Kevin feels he has learned enough and will complete the knowledge acquisition process
to be able to handle the Department. Mayor Fahey stated that a problem occurs with this because
it puts the Department in a very light staffing position and continued that there were a lot of
tenuous situations regarding this issue.
Another name mentioned as a possibility for an Acting Fire Chief was Tim McGaughey.
She indicated that she wanted to get feedback from the Council on what the Council thinks about
this issue and whether there would be advantages to contracting for a Chief for a while or if the
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 14
Council thinks there are more disadvantages and instead move forward with the process of
selecting a Chief.
Mr. Haakenson then passed on a couple of comments that he had shared with the Mayor
previously which were that he had a couple of the firemen lobby him, explaining that these
people were in favor of holding off on bringing a Chief on board if consolidation was going to
move forward. He further stated that these fire firefighters indicated to him they felt the
Department should be run from within rather than contracting out.
A discussion followed with input from various Councilmembers and comments from the Mayor.
Mr. Haakenson indicated he thought the Fire Department had been through some interesting
times in the last year or so and stated that there is not a lot of stability in the Department. He felt
they may have not been excited about the fact that when Kevin Taylor was brought on he wasn't
"one of theirs ", i.e., wasn't brought up from the ranks. He expressed a fearfulness that if the City
brings in someone from the outside, even on a temporary basis, on a contract basis, that will
create more instability in the Department. He went on because of the fact consolidation is so far
out in the future, he thought the City needed to go through the process of bringing someone on
board. If the City goes through the process and finds that qualified applicants are not applying,
then we proceed differently.
Councilmember White stated that it the City should set a standard of what is wanted and if the
standard is not achieved, an interim director is all the City can hope for. Councilmember Earling
basically agreed.
Councilmember Van Hollebeke asked for Councilmember Miller's feedback regarding this issue.
Councilmember Miller indicated that he would look at it from both sides. He felt from the
prospective of Randy Young's presentation that we are in the midst of a consolidation study and
Mr. Young would urge prudence and caution which would lend credence to the argument that we
hire a interim Fire Chief. He then continued if we decided on an interim Fire Chief would we go
to District 1 or take, as Council President Haakenson has been lobbied, someone internally. He
suggested that if the City looks to District 1 he felt there are some political tones that will be sent
right down to the newest recruit, we are going to be District 1. If the City looks to internal
issues, he felt there would be the domino effect, overtime may skyrocket because fire fighters
will have to fill in for each other. He felt the Department may run thin; and as much as he
respects Kevin Taylor, he stated that he is just beginning to feel his oats in his current job and to
thrust him into the Fire Chief job would do him a disservice.
He continued that if the City does recruit for a permanent Fire Chief, he felt there would be some
issues of finding an individual that would want to take the risk of taking the position during a
consolidation study and then finding himself without a position.
He recommended looking at an Interim Chief from another agency who was retired, who would
like to come back as a Fire Chief for a year, would not be a threat to anyone internally as far as
competing for the job if and when it becomes available. This person would then not be fearful of
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 15
losing his job if a consolidation took place. This would not then send any political messages that
the City of Edmonds is linking to District 1 or to Mountlake Terrance or to any other fire agency
at all.
Brent Hunter, Personnel Director, gave the Council and Mayor some input on personnel issues
regarding the Fire Department so they would be aware of all issues.
The Mayor then asked Mr. Hunter for his recommendation regarding Councilmember Miller's
suggestion and Mr. Hunter indicated that calls be made to other Fire Departments looking for
upcoming retirees to fill the position on a six month to a year basis. Mr.. Hunter indicated that he
would look into it.
A discussion followed regarding cost of search and procedure used to find a suitable applicant.
Mr. Hunter indicated to the Council that if the Council looked at his handout, it outlined the
procedure used in the fire chief recruitment process.
Councilmember White wanted to know if the Fire Department had a long -range plan of tasks to
be performed that would be put on hold if an interim Fire Chief were hired. He questioned if an
interim person would implement the long -range plan or would he create his own plan and expect
that to be implemented. He was bothered by the interim idea concept as regards any long -range
plans the Fire Department may have.
Councilmember Miller felt that Mr. White made a very good point indicating that when an
interim chief is hired, his main issue is to come in and be a caretaker by handling day -to -day
issues and not to come in with an agenda to build a different vision. statement. The interim
person should make sure that the organization remains stable until a decision is made for or
against consolidation and if consolidation does not occur, to then hire a permanent Fire Chief and
then hand over the entire organization to the person hired.
Mr. Plunkett indicated that he liked Councilmember Miller's idea of finding someone who is
willing to serve under the circumstances that now prevail and that Mr. Miller's suggestion might
be the answer to the issue at hand. Mr. Van Hollebeke asked Mr. Plunkett if he meant an interim
chief and Mr. Plunkett answered in the affirmative.
A discussion then followed regarding Kevin Taylor's qualifications to fill the position on an
interim basis for an extended period of time. Councilmember Nordquist asked if Fire Chief
Springer was available to fill this position and Councilmember Haakenson implied that Chief
Springer wanted to retire as close to his indicated date of April 30, 1998, as possible.
Councilmember White expressed his concern about going into a holding pattern for a year if an
interim person were hired and the additional costs that would be incurred by the Department
during that time and that it might be a good idea, if a qualified candidate came forward and was
willing to take the position, that person should be put in place and keep the Department moving
forward.
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 16
Councilmember Earling then asked the Mayor if she was looking for a consensus from the
Council. He thought he counted four people who seemed to be in favor of an interim chief and
if that was indeed the case the Council should say so. It was then agreed that there was a count
of four Councilmembers who were in favor of an interim chief.
Mr. Earling left the meeting at 1:00 p.m.
Mr. Toskey then gave a background on their budget and economic impacts, direct and indirect.
He continued with further areas of consideration for development citing UNOCAL, the
waterfront, 104/Dayton/Main, Highway 99 and Point Wells.
Mr. Toskey and Mr. Prinz followed with possible projects referring to Edmonds Crossing, old
ferry dock, Deer Creek Outfall, 104 parking lot, artists in residence, waterfront walkway, marsh
walkway, parking, deep water pier, summer shuttle, farmers market, and railroad crossing. He
touched on the vision process for the items mentioned.
Both gentlemen then spoke to other City/Port issues elucidating boat use — police and fire, park
access, police /fire response, kiosk, water line reroute, restrooms, and alliance.
A comment, question, and answer period followed.
Council President Haakenson asked Councilmember Van Hollebeke to introduce Mr. Mayo,
Brad Butterfield, and Doug Dewar.
The presenters covered the following items: Proposed Code Changes to the Edmonds
Community Development Code, the Architectural Design Board (ADB) process, possibility of 'a
new voluntary pre - planning process, proposed physical changes to Edmonds downtown to create
a new Walking Village (Urban Village), and Property Development 101. The packet handed out
to the Council contained written and pictorial material supporting the decisions the presenters
had reached.
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 17
During the discussion regarding the ADB, Councilmember Van Hollebeke stated that although
the Architectural Design Board has done a good job over the past years, he wondered if it was
possible that the usefulness of that Board has come to an end. Mr. Van Hollebeke asked Mr. Mar
if a pre - planning process could replace the ADB. Mr. Mar stated that at the present time he has
not looked into replacing the ADB and indicated that item would be coming before the City
Council in the next 30 to 60 days. The Mayor stated that the City Attorney, Scott Snyder, is
looking into this issue at present.
Mr. Butterfield gave the Urban Village portion of his presentation last. The packet handed out
consisted of pictures of other locals pertaining to ideas the trio were espousing. There were also
architectural drawings showing the ideas presented. He indicated that some of the property
owners would like to contribute financially to support some of the items mentioned in the
presentation.
He mentioned that he would like to see a pilot program where a portion of Main Street would be
closed off to vehicle traffic on Saturdays and become a pedestrian mall. Mr. Butterfield spoke to
the advantages of this type of program.
Mr. Van Hollebeke asked the Council for their input regarding the urban village idea.
Mr. Haakenson spoke up stating that he felt it was an idea that needed to come to fruition. Mr.
Nordquist expressed concerns for public safety asking for reassurance. Mr. Butterfield replied
that this would be taken care of.
Councilmember Miller asked how to go from the vision to action. The presenters indicated they
would support any reasonable idea that Council would suggest that would create a pilot program
to make a walking mall. Mr. Mayo indicated that the presenters would be willing to spend some
of their own money on their properties to get the ball rolling,. i.e. bike racks, flower pots, etc. It
was implied by Mr. Butterfield that the merchants are willing to cooperate and would like to see
this implemented. Mr. Butterfield indicated that the Edmonds Alliance for Economic
Development, because of its public /private partnership, would be a good vehicle to perhaps
oversee or coordinate this program.
The Mayor stated that for at least one year (one summer or timeline set) the administration needs
to know there is support for this program. She indicated that a pilot program would enable the
administration to address problems that come forth and find solutions if it becomes viable to
proceed to a permanent program. The Mayor stated that she is committed to doing whatever it
takes on the administration side to make this program happen if she has the direction from
Council.
Mr. Van Hollebeke then asked the Council for direction. Mr. Plunkett indicated that he would be
interested in supporting a little piece of the program for a year but would like to have that portion
identified. Councilmembers Tom Miller, Dick Van Hollebeke, John Nordquist, Jim White, and
Gary Haakenson all favored a pilot program giving the Mayor the direction to go forth with this
pilot program.
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 18
1
0
Mr. White stated that he would like to see the whole City drawn into the concept presented. He
felt a PR campaign would be beneficial to the program which would lead to full development of
the program.
Councilmember Miller stated that he would like to see banners put up defining Edmonds City
limits.
Jacque Mayo agreed to make a commitment to donate the use of the theater on a Saturday
afternoon sometime this Spring pulling all the groups together to make a presentation.
Mr. Van Hollebeke vigorously stated that he would like to see the banner program implemented
indicating that the banners not only state the City of Edmonds but what part of Edmonds, i.e.,
Westgate, Five Corners, Perrinville, etc.
Council President Haakenson thanked all involved for their hard work.
Tapes of this meeting are available in the City Clerk's Office.
With no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:30 p.m.
BARBARA S. FAHEY, MAYOR
SANDRA S. CHASE, CITY CLERK
Edmonds City Council Retreat Approved Minutes
February 27 and 28, 1998 LaConner, WA
page 19