19791106 City Council Minutes446
October 30, 1979 continued •
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN HERB, TO REVIEW THIS TOPIC AND ESTABLISH A POSITION STATEMENT ON NOVEMBER 27,
1979, THAT STATEMENT TO BE TAKEN BY COUNCIL MEMBERS ALLEN AND HERB.TO THE DECEMBER 6 PUBLIC
HEARING. MOTION CARRIED. Councilman Gould suggested that Council members Allen and Herb work
with Mr. Herzberg to put together a presentat ion for the November 27 meeting. Councilman Herb
advised the Council that he .has had difficulty attending all of,these meetings but he had noted
when he did attend that Councilwoman'Allen was doing an outstanding job representing the City
of Edmonds. Councilwoman Allen. -added that she felt that, for Edmonds, probably the basin
approach would be far better, but she was concerned about the City's responsibility to the
County. She thought the support of the southwest portion of the County could make them go or
lack of support could cause them to..fail. She agreed with Councilman Carns that it would.be
another layer of government, and that disturbed her also.
COUNCIL
Councilman Gould said he had been hearing from citizens regarding .the.new traffic light at
196th and Olympic View Dr. He had thought it was going to be a flashing yellow light except
when children were there and then -it would be button -actuated. Public Works Director Fred
Herzberg responded that the controller they were able to get cannot do that, and they are
trying to get the kind that will.
Councilman Carns advised that he will be absent November 13 and 27.
Mayor Harrison asked the Council to authorize Mayor Pro tem Gould .to sign additional copies of
the Lynnwood Sewer Diversion Study Agreement, as he did not wish to sign them. COUNCILWOMAN
MOTION: ALLEN MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN -HERB, THAT MAYOR PRO TEM RAY GOULD BE AUTHORIZED TO SIGN
THE ADDITIONAL COPIES OF THE LYNNWOOD SEWER DIVERSION STUDY AGREEMENT. MOTION CARRIED.
There was no further business to come before the Council, and the meeting was adjourned at is
9:40 p.m.
IRENE VARNEY MORAN, Uty Clerk HARVE H. HARRISON, Mayor
November 6, 1979
The regular meeting of the Edmonds City Council was called to order at 7:35 p.m. by Mayor Harve
Harrison in the Council Chambers of the Edmonds -Civic Center. All present joined in the flag
salute.
PRESENT STAFF PRESENT
Harve Harrison,.Mayor Charles Dibble, M.A.A.
Mike Herb Fred Herzberg, Public Works Director
Bill Kasper John LaTourelle, Community Development Director
Katherine Allen Irene Varney Moran, City Clerk
John Nordquist Marlo Foster, Police Chief •
Ray Gould Jack Weinz, Fire Chief
Tom Carns Jim Adams, City Engineer
Larry Naughten Bob Franklin, Technical Studies Engineer
Mary Lou Block, Acting Planning Div. Mgr.
John Wallace, City Attorney
Jackie Parrett, Deputy City Clerk
CONSENT AGENDA
Items (B) and (C) were removed from the Consent Agenda. COUNCILMAN-CARNS MOVED, SECONDED BY '
MOTION: COUNCILMAN NORDQUIST, TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA. MOTION CARRIED. The approved
items on the Consent Agenda included the following:
(A) Roll call.
(D) Authorization to institute suit to collect damages re Brackett's Landing
Fishing Pier.
(E) Authorization to continue to -November 20, 1979 hearing on appeal from
ADB decision re signs Five Corners Cleaners/Money Savers Pharmacy.
(F) Authorization*to waive August .15.notification date to increase cost of
housing prisoners in 1980 at Snohomish County Jail.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:OF OCTOBER 30, 1979 [Item (B) on Consent Agenda]
Councilman Gould noted that on page 3.of the -Minutes, the third line from the bottom, the word
"change" should have been "charge," the sentence reading: "He (Gould) did not think there should be
447
• November 6, 1979 - continued
any charge on Sunset.but he felt the parking.permit may work for those residences in the BC zone."
ACKNOWLEDGMENT.OF RECEIPT OF CLAIM,FOR"DAMAGES FROM BRENTA ABBEY.[Item (C) on Consent Agenda]
The amount of this claim was $100,000. Councilman -Gould noted.that.the Council had requested that a
policy be implemented to provide the, -Council a quarterly report.as to the status of claims filed, and he
asked if that"would be implemented soon... M.A.A. Charles Dibble.responded that the Staff is working with
the insurance company on a report.form,.and the reports.should be forthcoming by the end of the year.
MOTION: COUNCILMAN GOULD MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARNS, TO APPROVE BOTH ITEM (B) AND ITEM (C) ON THE
CONSENT AGENDA. MOTION CARRIED.
Councilman Herb noted that Item...(D). was an authorization to file suit to collect damages and he asked how
the fees will be handled, his concern being that the legal fees.may be excessive. City Attorney John
Wallace responded that the fees will be on an hourly basis, and that he had not yet gone into the measure
of damages, but he said the Council will be advised as this goes to court.
AUDIENCE
Don Martin,.President of the Edmonds -Chamber of Commerce, said he was representing the business
community, voicing their concern as to the Vocation of the taxi stand approved by the Council last
week. They had no objection to the taxi stand but objected to the location in view of the limited
parking in the business district.. Mayor Harrison suggested that the Chamber -establish a study
committee to make a recommendation to.the Council as to where the taxi stand should be. That was
acceptable to Mr. Martin, and he was asked to return with some alternatives on November 13, 1979, at
which time this would be discussed.as.an agenda item. It was also noted that one parking space
• would be satisfactory for the taxi stand, rather than the two previously indicated. Jim Morrow,
proprietor of the Edmonds Book Shop, expressed concern as to the logic of placing a taxi stand in
the circular area at 5th and Main, as approved last week.
HEARING ON CONTRACT REZONE FROM.,RS78.70 BN PROPERTY LOCATED AT 231.07 100TH AVE. W. (BRYCE BLACK -
FILE R=6-79
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Community Development Director.John.LaTourelle advised that the applicant had requested that this
MOTION: item be continued to November 20, 1979.. COUNCILWOMAN ALLEN MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN NORDQUIST,
TO CONTINUE R-6-79 TO NOVEMBER 20, 1979. MOTION CARRIED.
HEARING ON..DESIGN REVIEW OF PRD-2-79 - "PINE RIDGE VILLA"
Acting Planning Division Manager Mary Lou Block showed slides of the site which is heavily wooded
and 1 1/2 acres in size. There will be seven units, two duplexes and a triplex. There isa drainage
Swale down the middle of the site, the water from which will be contained and will go under the road
and gather in a pond at the northwest corner of the site. The surrounding zoning is generally RS-8.
The site plan was displayed, and Ms. Block noted that a turnaround will be provided at the end of
the road; a Fire Department requirement. The sidewalk adjacent to 83rd Ave. will meander, rather
than being straight, in order to save some of the trees, this having been requested by the ADB and
the Planning Commission. Both boards had been concerned aboutthe saving of two large fir trees on
the site, and the developer had attempted to save them but did.not believe it could be done because
of the access road, and Ms. Block said their engineer would explain that. The Engineering Depart-
ment had indicated they would work with the developer to try to allow some flexibility in the grade
of the road in order to save those trees, but after trying several alternatives it did not appear it
could be done. Ms. Block noted several graveled parking areas which will be provided for guest
parking, in addition to the required parking. She felt a PRD was the best type of development for
this site because it would cause much less disturbance to the site than a standard development. A
negative environmental impact declaration had been issued. Ms. Block recommended approval of the
application, as modified with the.turnaround and the meandering sidewalk, because it was consistent
with the City's zoning regulations, with the Policy Plan which calls for flexibility in subdivisions
to reduce impervious surfaces and .preserve the site, and because there was issued a negative environ-
mental impact declaration. Ms. Block was asked whether the site actually could accommodate seven
conventional lots and she responded that she felt a cul-de-sac could be made around which seven lots
could be platted. Councilman Nordquist noted that the minutes of previous hearings reflected a
spirit of cooperation between the developer and the neighbors, and Ms. Block stated that the neighbors
generally were satisfied with the concept of a PRD because of the way the development has a perimeter
of vegetation with the units being pushed back into the site. She said they had gone out with the
developer when the trees to be cut.were,marked. She noted again that the project's engineer indicated
they would try to save the two large fir trees, but on paper they had not been able to do so. There
was further.discussion as to assuring that no more trees would be.cut than indicated until Councilwoman
Allen noted that all of these same questions had been asked and answered at the ADB and Planning
Commission hearings. The public portion of the hearing was then opened.
Barry Birch of 20905 Woodlake.Dr..said.the developer and contractor had been nice enough to give the
neighbors a blueprint of their plan and most of the neighbors found,it acceptable. He said the
concerns of the neighbors on Woodlake Dr. centered on the steep grade and the drainage because they
already have drainage problems. He had sited and measured each -tree and had provided a map thereof
to the Planning Division. He said the average circumference of the trees was 5', with the exception
of the two large firs mentioned earlier which he said were about 9' in circumference and 110' to
115' in -height, and which were in the access road. Mr. Birch said he had made the reouest to save
those two trees at the Planning Commission hearing but they had said it would be a Design Board
decision and the.Design Board.had not -come out with a definite.instruction to save the two trees.
He said most of the neighbors would rather see this PRD than a standard plat because there would be
no screening left in a standard.pla-t. :He.real,ized that some trees would be removed but he said he
would like to see the driveway go -around at least one of the two tall firs in order to save it.
Steve Morrison of Group Four Engineers,. representing the applicant, said they were very aware of the
MOTION:
November 6, 1979 - continued
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past problems on a nearby site and they had worked with the neighbors on this proposal. He was
surprised at Mr. Birch's comments because he thought the neighborhood was satisfied with the
efforts they had made. He said they had tried to locate all of the.buildings inside the site
to leave a perimeter of trees on the outside. The two firs which had been discussed earlier he
said are 29" and 33" in diameter, and the 33" tree is right in front of.one of the driveways
and it will have to be removed. The.29" tree he said could be retained but that would require
the removal of two other trees, destroying some of the buffering.for those neighbors to the
east. He noted that Mr-. Birch lives on the west side of the site. He added that about 70% of
the trees over 13" in caliper will be retained, and those to be removed were marked except for
the two firs in question. He felt the site was extremely unique and well suited for a PRD, and
that they could fit in the buildings with less environmental damage than with a standard development.
Some deciduous.trees.will be added as part of the landscaping in the center of the site.
Councilman Gould explained to Mr. Morrison that trees are a sensitive subject in Edmonds. He
felt the project had been reviewed sufficiently and he said they would rely on the integrity of
the developer and his engineers to assure that the -site was developed.as shown, but he asked
for further explanation of the drainage. Mr. Morrison related the requirements established by
the Engineering Division and demonstrated how they would be accomplished. He noted that the
site has an existing natural swale but he said it is generally very dry. The roadway alignment
as shown on the plan was 14%, and Mr. Morrison said the building locations were constrained by
other elements such as the dedication for roadway. The public portion of the hearing was then
closed. COUNCILMAN GOULD MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN KASPER, TO APPROVE PRD-2-79 WITH THE
FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS: THAT THE TURNAROUND REQUESTED BY, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BE INCLUDED, THAT
THE WALKWAY CONTIGUOUS TO 83RD AVE. MEANDER TO ALLOW FOR THE RETENTION OF EXISTING TREES, AND
THAT THE PROCEDURE FOR MARKING TREES AS PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE ADB BE
FOLLOWED. MOTION CARRIED.
REVIEW MEADOWDALE AREA MORATORIUM
Public Works Director Fred Herzberg distributed the consultant's report and said that because
the situation is so complex he recommended there be no public input this evening and that the
Engineering Division make an informational presentation of findings and alternatives at the
Meadowdale Community Club for the benefit of the people in the affected area. He proposed that
a public hearing then be held on December 4, 1979 in order to receive public testimony. The
intent was that four copies of the consultant's report would be available at the Edmonds Library,
not to be circulated, and that six copies.wou.ld be provided to .the Meadowdale Community Club
for circulation. He also asked that the Council visit the area with.the Engineering Staff
prior to the December-4 public hearing. Technical Studies Engineer.Bob Franklin then introduced
Don Tubbs of Roger Lowe Associates, Inc..,.the consulting firm. The consultant's report indicated
that existing conditions present a fairly high probability of land movement within the next 25•
years, but special measures can be applied to protect current land uses and reduce landslide
hazard risks. Mr. -Franklin generally .reviewed the findinnc of +ha rcnnr+ and +hn rnrnmmnnA^A
special measures which would lower the water table in the area, including the use of sanitary
sewers, storm sewers, surface drains, and subsurface drains. Following his review, COUNCILMAN
MOTION: NORDQUIST MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARNS, THAT A PUBLIC HEARING BE SCHEDULED FOR DECEMBER 4,
1979, SUBSEQUENT TOA PRESENTATION BY THE ENGINEERING STAFF TO THE MEADOWDALE AREA PEOPLE.
Mayor Harrison asked if anyone in the audience was being seriously affected by the continuance
of the moratorium. Dick Beers stated that the delay caused by the moratorium has cost him
$20,000 to $30,000. Mayor Harrison was advised that a motion was on the floor and further
audience input would not be appropriate. THE MOTION THEN CARRIED. It was then agreed that the
Council and Engineering Staff and any other interested parties would visit the Meadowdale area
on November 17, meeting at the Pancake Haus at 9:00 a.m.-for carpooling.
DISCUSSION RE DEFINITION OF TERM; "SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE," WITH REGARD.TO SIGNS
Community Development Director John LaTourelle had submitted a proposed definition of the term,
"substantial change," reading: "Any change involving replacement of material making up 25% or
more of the sign area." He felt this would be easy to identify and easy to administer. Councilman
Gould felt the criteria should be tighter and he expected something that would say that substantial
change means any.name change on the sign, and if there is more than one name on a sign, if one-
half or more of the names are changed that would be substantial change. Also, he felt if a
sign is relocated it should conform to the new Sign Code. He also.felt if it is lighted when
it was not previously or if it is repainted in a new decor, that would be substantial change.
He felt any maintenance should be accepted and not be considered substantial change, such as if
the sign is repainted in the same colors. Councilman Carns felt that any name change, no
matter what the size, constituted a substantial change. Following this.discussion, several
MOTION: motions were made. COUNCILMAN GOULD MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARNS, THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY
BE INSTRUCTED TO DRAFT AN AMENDMENT TO THE SIGN ORDINANCE WHICH WILL INCORPORATE THE FOLLOWING
INTO THE DEFINITION OF "SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE": SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE SHALL MEAN THE CHANGE OF A
NAME. For clarification, he said when a.name changes that is a substantial change. A ROLL
CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN ON THE MOTION, WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS GOULD, CARNS, NORDQUIST, AND ALLEN
VOTING YES, AND.WITH-COUNCIL MEMBERS HERB,:.KASPER, AND NAUGHTEN VOTING NO. MOTION CARRIED.
MOTION: COUNCILMAN GOULD FURTHER MOVED, SECONDED.BY.000NCILMAN CARNS, THAT "SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE" FURTHER
SHALL EXIST IF ONE-HALF OR MORE OF THE NAMES CHANGE ON A SEVERAL NAME SIGN. A ROLL CALL VOTE
WAS TAKEN, WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS GOULD, CARNS, NORDQUIST, AND ALLEN.VOTING YES, AND WITH COUNCIL
MOTION: MEMBERS HERB, KASPER, AND NAUGHTEN VOTING.NO. MOTION CARRIED. COUNCILMAN GOULD THEN MOVED,
SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARNS, THAT IF A.SIGN IS MOVED OR RELOCATED, THAT WILL CONSTITUTE "SUBSTANTIAL
CHANGE." MOTION,CARRIED. COUNCILMAN GOULD MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN CARNS, THAT IF A SIGN
IS REPAINTED OTHER THAN THE ORIGINAL COLORS, THAT WILL CONSTITUTE "SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE." This
was clarified that maintenance of a sign was.all right but if it is repainted in different
colors then it is a substantial change...A ROLL:.CALL VOTE WAS TAKEN, WITH.COUNCIL MEMBERS
GOULD,.CARNS, NAUGHTEN, AND ALLEN V^TIN G.YES, AND WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS -HERB, KASPER, AND NORDQUIST
(MOTION: VOTING NO. MOTION CARRIED. COUNCILMAN.GOULD MOVED, SECONDED BY.000NCILMAN CARNS, THAT ANY
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November 6, 1979 - continued
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CHANGE INVOLVING REPLACEMENT OF MATERIAL MAKING UP--25%,OR MORE OF THE SIGN AREA, FOR OTHER THAN MAINTENANCE,
WILL' CONST.ITUTE'SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE." .A ROLL CALL VOTE -WAS TAKEN, WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS GOULD, CARNS,
NAUGHTEN, ALLEN AND HERB-VOTING.:,YES.,.AND WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS,KASPER AND NORDQUIST' VOTING NO.
MOTION CARRIED. Floyd Smith of 814 Dayton.asked if:the sign were changed to include "and Son" would
it require a new sign. He was told that would be a name change,...constituting substantial change,
and therefore it would require a new sign. Councilman Kasper.commented that if the lighting were
changed, for example, from 50.watts.,to 200..watts, that would.have a.big effect on the neighborhood.
The response:was.that it would.be covered i.n the 25% change .in material. It was noted that it may
be difficu lt'in that.case to determine what was 25% of material, but.Councilman Kasper accepted
that. Mr. LaTourelle added that,,in.practice; that never is. done. It was established that all of
the motions would be incorporated.:into.one ordinance as a proposed Code amendment.
REVIEW OF SCHEDULE OF BUDGET WORK,.MEETINGS
It had been recommended that the budget work meeting scheduled,for November 15 be added to the
regularly -scheduled work meeting..of November 13 if that.agenda would accommodate it: It now appeared
MOTION:
that November 13 would have a light agenda. THEREFORE,.000NCILMAN HERB MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILWOMAN
ALLEN, TO ADD .THE NOVEMBER 15 SCHEDULED BUDGET WORK MEETING MATERIAL TO THE NOVEMBER 13 WORK MEETING
AGENDA. MOTION CARRIED.
REVIEW PLACEMENT OF "COUNCIL" AT.,END:,OF AGENDA
Councilman Nordquist had made the motion that "Council" be placed at the end of the agenda during
the election campaign. Now, out of consideration for his fel.low Council members, COUNCILMAN NORDQUIST
.MOTION:
MOVED THAT "COUNCIL" BE RETURNED TO ITS FORMER PLACE ON THE AGENDA. There were several indications
•(Failed)
that other members were satisfied.with.it at the end of the agenda, and there was no second to the
MOTION:
motion. THEREFORE, COUNCILMAN NORDQUIST MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILWOMAN ALLEN, THAT "COUNCIL"
REMAIN AT THE END OF THE AGENDA.. MOTION CARRIED.
COUNCIL
Councilman Nordquist advised that.he.would be unable to attend..the Budget Work Meeting scheduled for
November 8.
Councilwoman Allen noted that a memo .had .been received regarding the Council meeting scheduled for
January 3.in the event urgent matters may arise -during the period'created:by the cancelling of the
December 25,.and:,,January 1 meetings., The City Attorney had.advised that a better procedure would be
to rescind the action setting the January 3 meeting and instruct.the Mayor to call.a'meeting for
MOTION:
January:-3 if the need arises for -a.meeting prior to the next regular meeting of January 8. 'COUNCILWOMAN
ALLEN MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN.GOULD, TO CANCEL THE MEETING SCHEDULED FOR JANUARY 3, 1980 AND
TO INSTRUCT THE MAYOR TO CALL A MEETING.ON JANUARY 3 IF THE NEED -SHOULD ARISE, DUE TO THE FACT THAT
TWO CONSECUTIVE MEETINGS HAVE BEEN -.CANCELED. MOTION CARRIED, WITH COUNCILMAN NORDQUIST VOTING N0.
Councilman.Gould.called attention -to -the reception for boards'and'commissions scheduled for November
16, noting that the schedule of greeters was included in this week's packet.
Councilman.Gould advised that Councilman Nordquist and he.had attended a hearing with the Snohomish
County Commissioners regarding.the*classification of "open space" -being placed on three properties
in Edmonds, -at the request of the.owners. Those applications were approved, and Councilman Gould
suggested that perhaps they now should be so zoned in order to make the action permanent.. COUNCILMAN
MOTION: GOULD MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILWOMAN ALLEN, THAT AN ITEM BE PLACED ON THE JANUARY 8, 1980 AGENDA TO
DISCUSS THE POSSIBLE REZONE OF THE THREE SUBJECT PROPERTIES TO "OPEN SPACE." MOTION CARRIED.
• Mayor Har.rison.brought up the subject of the Hong Kong Gardens pole sign.about which.he had asked.
what would be required to make.,i.t legal. He said Community Development Director John LaTourelle had
reported that the allowable sign area was 30 sq. ft., but Mayor.Harrison noted that the building.
measures 60' across the front, so -it should be twice that. He noted that the pole sign area is 40
sq. ft. without. -the ornamentation, and he asked if the sign would be legal if the ornamentati.on.were
removed. Mr. LaTourelle responded.that it would.
Councilman Naughten questioned the current Claims Warrants Register, noting an unusually high billing
for telephone service. He was advised that the figure included the installation charges for the
SCAN system and the changing of some telephone switching. He noted the Sound Oil figure and asked
if that was on contract, which it is.
There was no further business to come before the Council,.and the meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
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IRENE VARNEY MORAN, Ci Y Clerk...
HARVE H. HARRISON, Mayor
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