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Cmd022522 retreat Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 1 EDMONDS CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL VIRTUAL ONLINE MEETING COUNCIL RETREAT APPROVED MINUTES February 25, 2022 ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT Vivian Olson, Council President Kristiana Johnson, Councilmember Will Chen, Councilmember Neil Tibbott, Councilmember Diane Buckshnis, Councilmember Susan Paine, Councilmember Laura Johnson, Councilmember ELECTED OFFICIALS ABSENT Mike Nelson, Mayor STAFF PRESENT Angie Feser, Parks, Rec., Cultural Arts & Human Services Director Frances Chapin, Arts & Culture Program Mgr. Tom Brubaker, City Attorney’s Office Jeff Taraday, City Attorney Scott Passey, City Clerk Dave Rohde, GIS Analyst 1. CALL TO ORDER/FLAG SALUTE The Edmonds City Council special virtual online meeting was called to order at 9:00 a.m. by Council President Olson. The meeting was opened with the flag salute. 2. LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT Councilmember Chen read the City Council Land Acknowledgement Statement: “We acknowledge the original inhabitants of this place, the Sdohobsh (Snohomish) people and their successors the Tulalip Tribes, who since time immemorial have hunted, fished, gathered, and taken care of these lands. We respect their sovereignty, their right to self-determination, and we honor their sacred spiritual connection with the land and water.” 3. ROLL CALL/SELF INTRODUCTIONS City Clerk Scott Passey called the roll. All elected officials were present, participating remotely. At Council President Olson’s invitation, councilmembers described what they liked about somewhere they had lived besides Edmonds. Councilmember Buckshnis introduced Susan Babcock and Beckie Peterson, the new council executive assistants and they described their backgrounds. Council President Olson said she will inform councilmembers about the executive assistants’ schedules. Council President Olson thanked the staff who were present. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 2 4. AUDIENCE COMMENTS Council President Olson invited participants and described the procedures for audience comments. Deborah Arthur, Edmonds, thanked the council for holding a retreat, recognizing they work hard and do not get paid enough. She pointed out having public comments at the beginning of meetings is difficult because the public does not know what topics they should be responding to. She suggested having public comments later in the meeting. Many people do not see council meetings on Zoom because they do not have a computer or know how to operate a computer. She suggested having a list of meetings on Channel 21 might result in more response from the community as the community could see what’s going on. She wondered how wise it was for councilmembers to be on TikTok, Twitter, etc. She only went on to defend herself, but she learned some things, including that it is a dirty place where remarks are made in the deep dark. TikTok is something parents tell their children not to watch due to disgusting things on there. She felt the council should not be on TikTok or podcasts. She summarized the council does a great job and she appreciates them. 5. COUNCIL CONVERSATION TO DETERMINE DIRECTION AND SUPPORT ON AN ARRAY OF TOPICS It was the consensus of council to have minutes similar to regular council meetings for this agenda item and summary minutes for the remaining items. Council President Olson said she sent councilmembers some different approaches for conducting committee nights. Councilmember Paine said it appeared Council President Olson would be asking the council to make a decision when this was intended as a retreat and discussion and not decision making. She suggested checking with City Attorney Tom Brubaker whether it was appropriate for council to make decisions at a retreat. Mr. Brubaker responded this is a special meeting of the city council; the agenda topic states direction and support on an array of topics and although it was not exceptionally clear regarding what would be covered, that was understandable for a retreat. He suggested the best approach would be to discuss options, state preferences, get a sense of where the council stands and take action at the next regular meeting. Council President Olson pointed out whatever the council agreed to would require amending the code so it would come before council in the form of an ordinance. Councilmember Buckshnis said the intent is just to discuss topics and get councilmembers’ opinions and then it will come back to full council as an agenda item for discussion. The only decision was to have full minutes for this section. Council President Olson said the email to council provided different options on the approach to committee night. There has been some fluctuation over the years trying to find the right balance regarding the amount of time dedicated to committees as well as whether committees support the work of the administration well. The opportunity for a consent agenda is helpful to the administration; that was one of three options, having a short meeting on committee nights along with different start times for the committees. • Option 1 o PSPP Committee: 4:30 - 5:30 o Finance Committee: 5:30 -7:30 o PPW Committee: 7:30 -9:30 • Option 2 o PSPP Committee: 5 - 6 o Finance Committee: 6 - 8 (adds ½ hour) o PPW Committee: 8 - 10 Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 3 • Option 3 o PSPP Committee: 4 - 5 o Finance Committee: 5 - 7 o Short regular meeting with consent agenda and urgent or time critical items:7 - 7:45 o PPW Committee: 7:45 Councilmember K. Johnson said her preference in ranked order is 1, 2, 3. She would be satisfied with either option 1 or 2 but did not support option 3. Based on all her years on council, committee nights generally did not include a council meeting and that worked well. She did not think there was anything so urgent that a regular meeting needed to be scheduled for the consent agenda. She acknowledged there are new directors, but the old system worked and the directors understood it. In the past when meetings were in person, committees met simultaneously. Councilmember Chen preferred option 2; his main reason was the times worked out better. Councilmember Tibbott agreed with Councilmember K. Johnson, options 1, 2 and 3 in that order. He questioned whether it made sense to have all the committee meetings on the same night or was that a logistical issue that worked better for City staff and public notice. He was interested in City Clerk Scott Passey’s or other’s thoughts on that. He has noticed at times staff makes the same presentation at two committee meetings. He suggested if the same presentation needed to be made to two committees, the presentation could be made to the full council instead. That would save staff time and allow committees to discuss topics that are unique to each. He acknowledged there may be a need for a different presentations on the same topic so he would leave how to handle that up to staff. Councilmember Tibbott was not opposed to the idea of a short consent agenda meeting, but questioned whether there needed to be public comment at every meeting. For example, if there was public comment for 10-15 minutes on a hot topic on the consent agenda, there may be little time for the meeting. He agreed with Councilmember K. Johnson that there has not been a problem with bringing consent items forward even if there is a two week delay. A delay sometimes allows time for discussion with community members or others to inform what is on the consent. He summarized his preference was option 1 or 2. Councilmember Buckshnis agreed with the preference for 1, 2, and 3. Since Councilmember Chen is employed, which some councilmembers are not, and he expressed a preference for option 2, she stated her order of preference as 2, 1, 3. She noted Zoom has changed how committee night are done. Zoom requires staff prepare something visual; in the past documents were shared across the table. With regard to topics that come to more than one committee, even though there may be different aspects it is easier for staff to put it in one PowerPoint. It is important for issues to go through the committee function even if the presentations are the same. Regarding option 3, Councilmember Buckshnis said she would need examples as she could only think of 2-3 examples in the 12 years she has been on council when an immediate decision was necessary and a special meeting was needed. In her opinion special meetings have been “overly special” during the past year. If there is an emergent need, a special meeting could be held. Although she preferred to have committee meetings held simultaneously in person across the table, people are now used to videoed committee meetings versus just audio so consideration will need to be given to what is the most acceptable even though few citizens attend virtual committee meetings. Councilmember Paine expressed her order of preference as 1, 2, 3. She was not a fan of having a special meeting on committee night, pointing out if it is held regularly, it is not a special meeting and could contain a full agenda. She questioned how this would be done using a hybrid model, noting it appeared from the email that hybrid regular meetings would start March 23. How executive session would be held using a hybrid model still needs to be determined and she wanted that on someone’s list so it was not forgotten. As Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 4 Councilmember Tibbott pointed out, there is a risk of pulling a hot topic from the consent agenda and not having adequate time to discuss it before the last committee meeting. She agreed with having topics that needed to be presented to multiple committees going straight to a full council although she recognized sometimes topics are introduced to committee to get council feedback before it goes to full council. Committee meetings mean a long day for the administration, but that is balanced by getting better community feedback and access via Zoom. The December agenda item regarding hybrid only versus virtual only included a year’s worth of data regarding community access via Zoom. Councilmember L. Johnson agreed with a number of the points given, specifically regarding hybrid and access via Zoom as well as not having staff repeat presentations to committees. There may be times where presentations need to be made to committees on the same topic, but typically it could be streamlined by coming to full council. Her order of preference was option 1, 2, 3. Councilmember Buckshnis declared a brief recess due to Council President Olson’s technical issues. Due to connectivity issues, Council President Olson asked Councilmembers Paine and L. Johnson to repeat their comments. Councilmember Paine said she preferred options 1 and 2, primarily because it would be easier to manage. She also wanted to figure out when the council begins meeting in person again, whether committees will be virtual or hybrid and how that will come together. She did not support having a break between committee meetings for a consent agenda as there would be too many opportunities for interruptions. Councilmember L. Johnson said she agreed with a number of the concerns and questions regarding hybrid as well as instead of having topics repeated at multiple committees, commenting it could save time and energy if those items went straight to full council. There are times that it make sense for a topic to go to multiple committees, but often that could be avoided, saving time for staff and council. She stated her order of preference as options 1, 2, 3. Councilmember Tibbott said he was surprised how well Zoom has worked for committee meetings and sharing digital documents gives committee members and opportunity to see what will be presented prior to the meetings as well as gives citizens better access to committee meetings as well as having them recorded. He has not minded having committee meetings held via Zoom although he missed being together around a table. Council President Olson said she liked the idea of a short regular meeting with a consent agenda because it provides continuity and keeps City business flowing. She acknowledged she was only councilmember who supported that option. She planned to discuss virtual versus hybrid once the discussion regarding timing and format was concluded. She agreed with Councilmember Tibbott that Zoom is a good format for committee meetings. Having reviewed the participant list at all the committee meetings since they began via Zoom, there is very little public attendance. For that reason, she did not think committee meetings needed to be held in person for the sake of the public. Her recommendation and preference would be to have virtual only for committee nights. Council President Olson agreed with other councilmembers about not having the exact same presentation at multiple council meetings. She recognized there may be times that there are major financial implications so a presentation needs to be made to the Finance Committee and if there were job descriptions involved, the PSPP committee would need to consider that aspect. If it is handled that way, she saw merit in a topic going to two committees. She agreed a presentation could be made to one committee and materials only provided to another committee if there was value in having it vetting in advance of a presentation to full council, but going to full council was another option. The council has definitely given staff direction to use Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 5 the committee process for vetting before it comes to council; if the council wants to change that policy, it should be communicated to staff to avoid confusion. Councilmember Paine commented on the need to ensure technology can support the webinar structure if the plan is to do hybrid regular meetings and separate committees. She suggested leaving that up to staff. She pointed out the council is scheduled to discuss hybrid meetings at the March 15 council meeting. Council President Olson said since the council had begun discussing whether committee nights would be virtual or hybrid, she would allow the discussion to continue. Councilmember K. Johnson commented there have been times when she logged in early and heard the end of a presentation at the Finance Committee that was also a subject for the PPW Committee. She suggested as a compromise, if there was a subject that needed to be evaluated by both committees, it would be beneficial for it to be the last item on the Finance Committee agenda and PPW Committee members could join the meeting early and listen to the presentation. Citing the police as an example which included a financial impact and the job description, Councilmember Buckshnis said even though the PowerPoint was the same, each committee looks at different aspects. For example, she relies on the PSPP Committee to vet the job description, salary level, etc. and then the Finance Committee vets it from a financial standpoint. Visual presentations are a necessity when meetings are on Zoom, and she did not have a problem with duplicate PowerPoints although she recognized it may be tedious for staff to present to two committees. She cited the Marina Beach grant as an example of committees looking at a topic through difference lenses, the PPW Committee recommended approving the grants, but the Finance Committee, who considered the financial aspects, did not. She commended staff for their hard work and did not want to require they change their PowerPoints for different committees. Councilmember Paine pointed out by ordinance if a councilmember wants to comments or ask questions about a committee’s agenda item, they must be present at the start of the meeting. Having an overlap of the committee meetings could be confusing. Like Councilmember Buckshnis said, committees look at topics through different lenses. She recalled discussions last year and the previous year about which items go to full council and which go to committee and that may require further council discussion. Council President Olson pointed out the council could change the code to require a councilmember be present for the entire topic, rather than the entire meeting, in order to ask questions/make comments. Council President Olson introduced Edmonds resident Jay Grant who has been the Secretary General of the International Organization of Airport and Seaport Police for the last 12 years, chaired the most recent salary commission and is currently a Port commissioner. His time with the council today is to engage on issues demonstrating the value of mastering Robert’s Rules of Order and sharing insights from a career with extensive legislative and role making components. Mr. Grant said he has done these types of things several times but never virtually. In one of his jobs, they hold consultative status to United Nations International Maritime organization and aviation groups where there are 175 nations represented on Zoom. Typically they meet in a room that holds 1,000 people. One of the things he learned in over nearly four decades of regulatory and legislative work at the state, federal and international levels was civility, equitability, responsibility and respect to which he added relationships. Another thing he learned was not everything is fair but processes are supposed to be equitable. He has been in many situations where there is a collaborative group that ranges from friendly to civil to principled to difficult, but everyone followed the rules. He referred to a relationship he saw in Congress when he was counsel to the State of Arkansas, the House and Senate were democrats and the governor was a republican and it was interesting watching everyone be civil to each other. He referenced Ted Kennedy, a democrat and reasonably progressive, and Warren Hatch, a far right republican, who were good friends and their Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 6 families vacationed with each other. That demonstrates electeds can have totally different ideas, and although he may not like how someone votes, he usually leaves that on the table. Mr. Grant explained his goal today was to go through some issues that were brought up to him and other issues he has observed which he attempted to categorize. He suggested using a quality management technique, circles, to call on councilmembers and that councilmember limit their comments to three minutes. He suggested not being repetitive, pointing out the intent was a discussion and not make any decisions. The intent today is to discuss ideas and learn different approaches so the council can be more productive. As elected officials, councilmembers work for the over 40,000 citizens and he understood that can be difficult and everyone has their own agenda. Mr. Grant said he looked at the council itself, vision, parliamentary procedures, process, resources and projects which seemed to include everything that councilmembers had brought up. All the bodies he has worked with are extremely structured, usually because there are a lot of people and a lot of details. One of the things he has seen is that committees are often used to vet the details so when it reaches the governing body and the council votes on it, it is more structured. He was used to having motions written out that the clerk reads due to limited time. He recalled some councilmembers had brought up questions about time management. Mr. Grant suggested looking at the structure of committees. In watching all of the 2022 council meetings, he noticed the council sometimes gets into a lot of minutia because all facts may not in front of them. He asked how time could be managed better, how the process could be improved using committees and eventually bringing items to council, recognizing the council considers complicated projects, appropriations, grants, etc. and it is about managing each of those individually. He invited councilmembers to comment on process, time management and getting the details so the process can be more efficient when items come to council. Councilmember K. Johnson commented the committee structure works well. It gives councilmembers an opportunity to talk frankly with staff and ask questions and gain a better understanding in a limited arena. She did not agree with making a presentation to full council instead of two committees. She recalled over the years when things went to full council and bypassed the committee, there was a more laborious, nitpicking discussion among the seven councilmembers. She agreed with the observation that the council needs to be more efficient and streamlined. One of her concerns, which may be for later discussion, she did not think council meetings were managed as efficiently as they could be. For example, some councilmembers speak more than twice and/or repeat things for emphasis. The time allotted for agenda items is not enforced; that is the mayor’s job in consultation with the council president and if a subject is exceeding the time limit, an adjustment needs to be made during the break to determine how the remaining agenda items will be handled. That was the way former Mayor Earling managed the meeting and it was efficient and effective. In the past, meetings were usually concluded by 10 p.m., and now meeting are lasting later and later with extensions every few minutes including a meeting last week that ended at 11 p.m. That illustrates the inefficient management of regular meetings. She concluded the committee structure works and she likes it. Councilmember Chen commented he was new to the council and has been observing and learning. He understood public service is different than private business, but a lot of decisions the council makes are very inefficient. If a decision can be made at the council level, it would save staff and committee time to go to full council. Decisions that need further investigation or study should go to committee or hire a consultant to do more study or investigation. He was interested in a hybrid version where some items can come straight to council if it is a decision the council can make which would save a lot of time and resources. He valued the committee structure, noting a lot of committee members are volunteers like the Planning Board and at times may not be appreciated. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 7 Councilmember Tibbott agreed with the statements about committee meetings being a useful way to dive into the details which hopefully gives staff a way to tailor their comments when items come council. For example, during a committee meeting, members will point out an aspect to highlight or additional information to provide when an item comes to full council. It is important not to have surprise agenda items at council meetings that councilmembers have not had an opportunity to consider. He referred to last week’s proposal for a senior planner which even though he had seen earlier versions of the job description, he was surprised when it was added to the agenda and it was not part of the council packet. He realized the urgency of item so he participated, but his preference would have been for that to be on the agenda so it could have been studied and evaluated in advance of the meeting. Councilmembers could also be more efficient with their comments during meetings such as agreeing with previous comments made by a councilmember and adding their perspective. He has seen better use of that in the last couple meetings and finds it a good way to save time as well as benefit from more perspectives in a shorter amount of time. Councilmember Buckshnis commented committees have changed many times over the years including a committee of the whole for a long time, committees in person and committees via Zoom. Zoom has definitely changed the dynamic of committees. In the past, councilmembers liked having a 2-3 touch rule and felt it was important that items go through committee. She hoped councilmembers trusted her financial acumen and understanding of municipal finance just like she trusted Councilmembers Tibbott and K. Johnson’s knowledge of public works. The committee structure streamlines vetting of topics. She suggested considering whether some Planning Board decisions should go to committee first instead of going straight to council. Some councilmembers need more time to learn and figure things out; she is still learning because things change every year. Councilmember Buckshnis continued, stating her preference to utilize the committee structure more, because the council is responsible for the oversight of the City’s finances including utilities. It is important to retain the committee function and attempt to streamline it. She agreed some meetings have gone astray because items were not on the agenda. Zoom has been difficult for some councilmembers and councilmembers should be supporting each other. If she wants to put something on an agenda, she should be able to do that, but that has not been how things were managed. She was hopeful the council will return to hybrid and then to totally in-person. She did not recommend returning to committee of the whole although it was a good learning experience for newer councilmembers. Council President Olson said using subcommittees, not just council committees but also topic and agenda item subcommittees can be a good idea for complicated or controversial items. Having a couple councilmembers who see things differently working together on a topic helps develop a policy that works for everyone before it comes to council. She recognized it was hard to manage meetings, and agreed the council needs to master rules and techniques that make processes or review of items more efficient. That is a worthy pursuit because it is everyone’s time, the public, staff, media, and councilmembers. She was glad Councilmember Chen’s raised the topic of commissions which are an opportunity for council. The council sees a lot of the Planning Board’s work, but very little of what is considered by other boards/commissions. Council President Olson continued, for example, the Economic Development Commission is an amazing opportunity to have items better vetted and more facts and information gathered so when things come to council, those great minds have already vetted it. She agreed with having motions provided in writing in advance of meetings, a practice that Councilmember L. Johnson has followed since the beginning. That is a good practice and gives councilmembers more time to process and it improves efficiency at meetings. With regard to the council getting into minutia during council meetings, Councilmember Paine said that was more appropriate during the committee structure rather than full council meetings where staff can answer questions. She also suggested councilmembers get their questions asked/answered in advance of council meetings which can also be accomplished during committee meetings. Committees are useful for vetting items that then can go straight to the consent agenda. In looking over agendas for the last five years, Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 8 in the past there were more items on the consent agenda, possibly due to more effective use of committees’ time. Lately there have been fewer things on the consent agenda and meetings have gone until 11 p.m. some nights. That is a very long days for directors, staff and councilmembers and everyone has busy lives. It is difficult to have detailed discussions after 10 p.m. other than conveying information to the community via council comments. She suggested finding ways to raise things to the 10,000 foot level. Councilmember Paine agreed with the idea of sending out motions in advance so councilmembers have time to consider it. She favored more effective use of committees. Zoom slows things down due to the need for a roll call votes; that is not intended to waste time, but ensure the minute taker can accurately record the vote. She recalled whenever items on a council agenda exceeded 2½ hours, it would be problematic due to audience comments and council discussion during the meeting. Councilmember L. Johnson referred to comments about not having surprises, having an opportunity to vet items, placing items on the agenda so there is time to consider it, she said processing on the spot like this was challenging for her. If she had received this discussion topic ahead of time, she could have better formulated her thoughts and was surprised it had not been on the agenda to provide councilmembers that opportunity. She sees the benefit of the committee structure but recalled there have been a few times where the repetition was not beneficial. Although she would love to be able to provide examples, she wasn’t able to do so without advance notice. She summarized there was great benefit in the committee structure and she understood why items go through committee, but some of the repetition could be avoided. Mr. Grant said everyone is talking about structure and the council needs to decide what that structure should be. In the Senate, there is structured time to talk; in the House, committee meetings only have five minutes because there are so many. Every organization needs to develop a structure and once that structure is developed and it is respected, it helps with planning. He provided three examples from the last committee meeting, the senior planner, the streetlights and the emergency issue. Obviously all of those were really important and from listening to the discussion, everyone thought they were important, but maybe not all the facts were provided to make a decision such as with regard to the streetlights. With regard to the senior planner, the council had all the facts, but it was not on the agenda. With regard to the emergency, things happen and obviously the council needs to have a way to bring things up quickly. In some of the organizations he is part of, the meeting is over when it reaches 10 p.m. Mr. Grant invited councilmember to talk about things from a structure point of view. Councilmember L. Johnson commented this requires is a lot of processing on the spot. She is someone who like to choose her words carefully so she opted to pass. Mr. Grant said this is only a discussion; the intent is to bring up issues for discussion and at some point make decisions. Councilmembers talked about the structure and poked holes in the structure; the goal is to discuss how to get there. Councilmember Paine said she was unsure councilmembers have been poking holes. With regard to the example about the planner, Councilmember L. Johnson sent the proposal out the prior week so all councilmembers knew about it in advance. If councilmembers have been watching the Planning Board and understood the work the prior planner had done, people were surprised at how much work this planner had done already for the City in updating code as part of the code rewrite. Mr. Grant suggested focusing on the structure and the way it was brought up. Councilmember Paine said it is an interesting dilemma, what goes on behind the scenes and what occurs in front of the cameras and through the agenda process. For example, the extended agenda is a helpful tool. She agreed it was best to have agenda as visible and transparent as possible, but emergencies do arise. For example, a moratorium won’t be announced and included on the extended agenda. She was unsure what this topic was grasping at, noting there wasn’t transparency in today’s agenda, a lot of the agenda items were not provided until this Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 9 morning. She summarized planning was very helpful and she liked to have information in advance so she could gather her thoughts. Mr. Grant clarified his focus was on the structure of how things happen and the items he mentioned were only examples. Councilmember Paine said the structure is well codified through both Robert’s Rules and council practices. It is up to council to comply, be mindful of the time and do thoughtful agenda planning. It is as much an art as a raw numbers game and spider sense about how long things will take. With regard to transparency and behind the scenes on the planner agenda item, Council President Olson said she suggested including that item in the quarterly budget amendment so it would be in the packet. That would have been better process-wise as councilmembers and the public would have had more time to weigh in. Conversely, Robert’s Rules gives councilmembers the right to make motions from the floor so each councilmember has the opportunity to decide whether to support it when it happens. She recalled she did not support it, but thought it was an important issue. What the council can do process-wise is a worthwhile use of time because it may lead to spending less time forever after. The topics being discussed today, working on structure and having more efficient meetings, are things that councilmembers identified. Councilmember Buckshnis reiterated things have gone haywire due to Zoom. Being the council president is a science, there needs to be a lot of cooperation with the administration. The examples Mr. Grant provided are extremely unique. What happened with the budget process was very unique and likely will never happened again. Councilmember Chen could have added the streetlight proposal to the amendment process when he was sworn in on November 23rd. The examples Mr. Grant provided are not good examples, every councilmember has the right to bring up issues from the floor. During the last year, councilmembers who attempted to bring up items from the floor have been unsuccessful. She emphasized the role of the council president serving councilmembers. It is important that all councilmembers are informed and know what is going on, that is part of the council president’s role. It is no fun being council president and she did not want to do it again. Councilmember Buckshnis continued, the worst thing is group think where things are passed without any vetting. It is important that the process works and councilmembers are able to put items on the agenda. A good example is relocating the police station, something that needs to go through the committee structure. Agenda planning should be a joint effort involving all councilmembers and the council president and interaction with the administration. She recalled an example a couple years ago where the council allocated $200,000 for the opioid crisis and for the homeless from the floor, but the administration had to determine how to act on it which didn’t happen. With regard to the streetlighting, the CIP/CFP is part of that decision. Councilmember Tibbott said one of things that occurs is new councilmembers getting up to speed on information they need to make decisions as well as how much staff involvement is required to prepare the packet or prepare council for discussion. Some items require a lot of information such as Planning Board minutes so councilmembers need to read those to be familiar with the topic. Staff depends on councilmembers having that background information before meetings. It took him years to get a broader scope of what is happening in Edmonds. Like Councilmember Buckshnis said, even after 12 years on the council, she is still learning new things. There is a steep learning curve at the beginning. With regard to structure of meetings, Councilmember Tibbott agreed councilmembers should be able to propose agenda items from the floor for inclusion on the agenda. However, if background information is required, the council can table items or refer it to committee before making a final decision. Council meetings could be facilitated better, acknowledging Zoom makes that difficult. When the council was on the dais, they pushed a button to speak which provided an orderly way for each councilmember to provide comments. In the past, until everyone made a comment, a councilmember was not permitted to make a second comment. It may be beneficial for councilmembers to use Zoom’s raise hand function as it helps the moderator keep track of who is in the queue, who wants to speak and in what order. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 10 Councilmember Chen said the examples provided regarding the streetlighting and the planner decisions were perfect and led to his question about councilmembers’ access to staff and City resources. Although the motion to include the planner on the agenda was a motion from the floor, that had been underway for weeks by staff and was well written and well managed and the advertisement, read by Director McLaughlin, had already been prepared. All that background work had been done to get to that point, but it was brought up for council discussion from the floor for different reasons. With regard to the streetlights, that is a need in the community, but he does not have access to resources or staff to provide background on the issue. He requested councilmembers, new or old, left or right, have equal access to City resources. Councilmember K. Johnson said in hindsight it was not necessary to bring the senior planner position into the budget discussions as the change was from a temporary to a permanent position which could have been handled via committee or similar process. She objected to its being a surprise and in the past two years, a councilmember could not bring anything to the agenda from the floor unless four votes were pre-arranged which she thought was wrong and showed that different processes were used at different times. Apparently there was an email sent Thursday, but it should have been in the packet. She was experiencing email difficulties so she was unable to read email until Wednesday. She did not know about this, but someone alerted her to the concept. She summarized it did not need to be included in the budget amendment and waiting would have allowed he public an opportunity to consider it. Mr. Grant clarified he was not highlighting the issue, but the structure of the issue. Councilmember L. Johnson expressed her discomfort with this discussion. Very specific examples were used that personalized it and put certain councilmembers in a position of defending or rehashing. This is not her personal experience with the intent of retreats, commenting this seems to be a rehashing of issues and it is getting rather personal. Mr. Grant said that was not his intent, his intent was to look at the structure. Councilmember L. Johnson said he used some issues that the council had had heated discussion on following five weeks spent on a very emotional redo of the budget. She summarized this was not helpful. Mr. Grant apologized, stating that wasn’t his intent. Councilmember L. Johnson said councilmembers needed a heads up on the topics so they could have formulated their thoughts. Councilmembers mentioned the ability to prepare and no surprises, but that is exactly what is happening here, Mr. Grant said the next topic is resources and access. He invited councilmembers to comment on their access and what they would like as far as access and whether they have the right kinds of communication to be effective and to get the facts they need. He suggested councilmembers limit their comment to one minute. Councilmember K. Johnson said councilmembers do not have access to any resources in the administration unless they go through a director. In the past, former Mayor Earling gave councilmembers permission to go directly to staff if it was under four hours of work. Now there is no communication from the mayor except through his PIO and resources are very limited. The council just hired two new employees, one to help with administrative tasks and the other to do research, but it remains to be seen how that will be divided up amongst the seven councilmembers. Mr. Grant invited councilmembers to indicate what they need in the way of resources versus who would provide it. Councilmember Chen said he is new to council and doesn’t not know the appropriate way to obtain resources. It was his sense that the council did not have direct access to directors or staff and sometimes were not supposed to talk to directors. With regard to the streetlights, it was pull versus push. If the Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 11 administration decided they need a planner, they have HR and other resources to formulate it versus the streetlighting, it was just him mentioning it because a community member expressed concern and he included it as a budget amendment when Councilmember Buckshnis invited councilmembers to add budget amendments. However, he did not have the resources to obtain information. Councilmember Tibbott said in past there have been problems with getting items onto the working agenda. For something like the streetlighting, it could be scheduled on a committee agenda and then staff could prepare background information which gives the committee an opportunity to ask questions and prepare for discussion. He found working with the council president to get things on the agenda in such a way that questions are answered through the usual framework to be successful in the past. Councilmember Buckshnis said this is the fourth administration she has worked with; councilmembers cannot require different administrations to do things the way they were done in the past. She has accepted how the current administration announces things to council, but has never had an issue with getting answers from directors. She reiterated the uniqueness of the budget amendment process will probably never happen again and is a bad example. Council President Olson agreed with Councilmember Tibbott’s suggestion to bring topics to committee as it is an opportunity to have a conversation with staff and learn what additional information is needed. She will confer with the administration about how councilmembers should get information from staff. There may need to be specific asks of directors rather than simply communicating with staff on a topic, Councilmember Paine encouraged councilmembers to talk to directors about ideas they have because they are experts in their fields and highly respected professionals. She understood there being a barrier between directors and line staff so the directors know what going on with their staff. The directors are terrific resources and have more resources with their staff. She respected the knowledge the directors bring to the community and administration. She suggested councilmembers set up a time to talk with them about their ideas. Councilmember L. Johnson said councilmembers have direct access to directors and they have been very forthcoming with information and help her define what it is she is asking/looking for. The council’s legislative assistant is also a great resource for research. She was thankful new legislative assistants had been hired as they are a very valuable resource. With regard to parliamentary procedures, Mr. Grant asked if councilmembers needed more information or education regarding Robert’s Rules. Councilmember L. Johnson commented training and retraining is always beneficial. Sometimes people get set in their ways and need a refresher because they have adopted habits that may not be beneficial and need a reminder about how things should be done. Councilmember Paine commented the council gets weekly reminders from the city clerk who is a parliamentarian. She agreed with Councilmember L. Johnson that there are practices the council needs to improve upon. Robert’s Rules are a great way to do things but sometime the group does not follow it. Having a parliamentarian is always helpful. Council President Olson said one of the options, and she reserved funds from the training budget for it, is to have Ann Macfarlane, Jurassic Parliament, do a session for up to 20 people on Friday, May 20 at a cost of $1600 for 2 hours or $1900 for 3 hours. Alternatively, there is an online special where councilmembers can take 3 classes for $100. She suggested it may be more beneficial to do a session together. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 12 Councilmember Buckshnis agreed with the comments by Councilmembers L. Johnson and Paine. She enjoys the presentations by Ann Macfarlane, but Scott Passey is also extremely talented. She agreed training and retraining is key because people often forget and she just learned that point of clarification was not part of Robert’s Rules. Councilmember Tibbott said training regarding how to manage parliamentary procedure in a Zoom world would be valuable. He appreciated the feedback from the city clerk about issues that have occurred at council meetings. Councilmember K. Johnson said she has studied under Ms. Macfarlane for many years; she is the best and has a lot to offer. She has learned enough to know the council is getting lazy and needs the mayor to keep the council in line. Often councilmembers are not speaking to the motion, are speaking before a motion, repeating themselves for emphasis, etc. Councilmembers are also supposed to speak to the mayor as the chair and not identify each other by name. She summarized the council needed to tighten the ship and Ms. Macfarlane can help with that. Mr. Grant said he tried to structure this discussion based on the questions councilmembers submitted. When the pubic watches on the TV, it is live. He did not intend to make anything personal, only provide structure based on those three items. When everyone knows the rules and follows the rules, things usually go more smoothly and do not become personal; making things personal gets in the way of doing the job. He concluded it appears more work could be done on a few issues. 6. BREAK (11:34 – 12:00) 7. LUNCH/DISCUSSION WITH COUNTY LEADERSHIP (Councilmember L. Johnson did not return to the meeting following the break.) Council President Olson introduced Snohomish County Councilmember Nate Nehring, District 1 (Arlington, Darrington, Granite Falls, Marysville, Stanwood) and described his background. She explained one of reasons she invited a county councilmember is the great example they set for professionalism, civility and friendship across the aisle as well as so he could share his experience as a county councilmember and topics of mutual interest with the City of Edmonds. She also introduced Snohomish County Special Projects Director Alessandra Durham. Councilmember Nehring and Ms. Durham responded to council questions regarding: • How does the Snohomish County Council deal with partisanship and work together on common goals. • Snohomish County differs from one side of the county to the other. What are some of the similarities and differences the communities face? • How does the county council deal with social media? Are there rules that prohibit members from speaking about each other on social media? • You are able to reach across the aisle and debate and discuss, and after the discussion and vote, county councilmembers are able to get along. Hopefully the Edmonds city council can follow that example. • What are some of projects coming up in the Edmonds area? The south and north ends of the county are very different but there are shared aspects and communities. • Snohomish County is one of the largest counties in the state and has an enormous forest resource in terms of environmental benefits. • Concern with single family zoning bills that mandate housing at the local level. • Using ARPA funds for a program where gas blowers could be exchanged for electric blowers, an opportunity for an incentive rather than a mandate. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 13 • Whether there is interest in annexing Esperance. Some Esperance residents have been opposed in the past, believing their taxes would increase. • Progress on Meadowdale Beach Park and whether there was interest in transferring it to Edmonds. • The county council’s decision to increase sales tax to assist with homelessness and whether that should have been a public vote. • Opportunity to use property owned by state near Highway 99 for a pocket forest. • Whether there are any county projects planned in Edmonds. • Thanks to Executive Somers for his pandemic videos. Will county council begin hybrid meetings? • Some citizens are interested in having more attention given to Southwest County Park such as trails. 8. WORKSHOP 1. POSITIVE COMMUNICATION Council President Olson introduced Debra Rich Gettleman, a senior career coach and communications specialist and described her background. Today’s workshop, Improv-ing Communication, designed for the council, focuses on exploring commonality, attentive listening, creative trust-building and formulating deliberate intentions. Ms. Gettleman explained today’s workshop is intended to be fun and using the tools of improvisation usually helps people bypass some of their intellectual limits and try new things. She reviewed the rules for today’s workshop: have fun, don’t judge and keep in the house. Council President Olson pointed out this is public meeting so anything that is said is shared with the world. Ms. Gettleman reviewed: • How to make a high functioning team o Rules for success ▪ What every high functioning team needs ▪ Finding common ground ▪ Supporting other people’s (outrageous) visions ▪ Trust ▪ Listening ▪ Clarity of intention She invited councilmembers to share on a scale of 1-5 (low to high) how well councilmembers communicate. Comments included: • 1-2, more collaboration in committees • 3-4, other years have been more troublesome, attempting to do the best we can this year, Zoom has changed communication • 2, stay positive so can work together and put differences aside. Councilmembers represent people who supported them which may be driving some decisions • Each councilmember communicating with other councilmembers would add value,. Working cooperatively leads to good outcomes. There is a large gap in communication and what it would take to get to a 5 • 1-2, last couple years have been very oppressive and non-communicative. Goal for this year is 4-5 • Councilmembers are not always respectful. Look to future, emotional things happened in past that got in the way of productive conversations. Assume good intentions, there are healthy ways to speak to each other, interruptions are rude and unproductive. Ms. Gettleman lead an exercise regarding finding common ground (councilmembers raised their hands in response to several questions). Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 14 • Prefer coffee over tea • Like ice cream • Ever gone on diet • Afraid to fly • Enjoy camping • Like to cook • Speak foreign language • Ever bullied • Ever felt like outsider • Ever felt like voice not heard She explained a technique used in improvisation, “yes, and” where someone makes a statement and the next person agrees and builds on their idea. When that is not done in improv, it kills the scene; when someone in life doesn’t “yes, and” it kills the conversation and stops the flow of creative expression and creates limits that shut people down and make problems even harder to solve. Conversations bloom when we accept other people’s reality. The council participated in a “yes, and” exercise, where one person made a statement and the next person built on it. Next, Ms. Gettleman focused on trust/listening. • Trust is built when someone is vulnerable and not taken advantage of.” – Bob Vanourek, Triple Crown Leadership • Without trust, you: o Question other people’s motives o Withhold critical information o Go behind people’s backs to get done whatever you think is right o You fill in the blanks to assign motives to other people o Circumvent people because you don’t trust them to make good decisions o If a project isn’t getting done, assumptions: you might not have all the information Ms. Gettleman divided council into two teams and conducted a creative problem solving game, “this beats that” where councilmembers were given four random objects and asked to rank their usefulness and reach an agreement on their use in an extraterrestrial invasion. Following the game, Ms. Gettleman explained this assists with listening, trusting, and working together. Next, Ms. Gettleman focused on intention: your deliberate goal, purpose or objective • “The words you use are so much less important than the intention behind the words.” • Clarity is key o We never speak to another person without an intention. o Ask yourself: what is my intention” before you speak or react is the smartest political, personal and professional question you can ask in order to be successful. ▪ And guess what? Most people never even bother to think about it. Ms. Gettleman conducted another exercise where councilmembers made a statement and their intent varied based on the way they said it. She summarized asking yourself what is your intention is a key question in furthering open, civil communication. Ms. Gettleman lead another exercise about potential responses (and their intent) when a councilmember posts an inflammatory comment on social media. She reviewed: • Which intentions do you think are the most helpful? • Which intensions do you use more frequently? • Which intentions lead to positive results, team cooperation, civility? Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 15 • Why then do we all so often allow negative intentions to guide our communications? • Do not react with emotion • Take five seconds to breathe before reacting • Ask yourself what is my intention? • Ask yourself what do you hope to accomplish with this? • The real work o Consciously ask yourself what is my intention and then use the best tactics to accomplish your goal o Our intention as a city council is to: ▪ Represent the people of Edmonds ▪ Make solid fiscal and socially just decisions ▪ Spend funds wisely ▪ Create a harmonious front ▪ Build support for the council ▪ Show civility Discussion included recognizing someone may have more than one intention, activities the council can do going forward that do not violate OPMA to build team spirit, the affect Zoom has had on communications, not taking things personally, and difficulty getting past obstructive or negative actions comments made entirely for personal reasons. 9. PRESENTATIONS 1. OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS ACT (OPMA) City Attorney Jeff Taraday explained he may not get through everything he planned to present. He preferred to review the material in depth and get questions answered and schedule follow-up training rather than rushing through the materials. He reviewed: Basics • Why do we have the OPMA? o “All political power is inherent in the people, and governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.” Const. art. 1, §. 1. o The legislature…declares that all…councils,…exist to aid in the conduct of the people’s business… It is the intent of this chapter that their actions be taken openly and that their deliberations be conducted openly. RCW 42.30.010 • The basic OPMA requirement o All meetings of the governing body of a public agency shall be open and public…,except as otherwise provided in this chapter. RCW 42.30.030 o Exceptions are executive session and closed bargaining sessions • What is a meeting? (RCW 42.30.020(4): “meeting” means meetings at which action is taken. • What is action? (RCW 42.30.020(3): “Action” means the transaction of the official business of a public agency by a governing body including but not limited to receipt of public testimony, deliberations, discussions, considerations, reviews, evaluations, and final actions. • Transitive property of the OPMA o Meeting = Action o Action = Discussion of official business o Meeting = Discussion of official business • Who is subject to OPMA (RCW 42.30.020) (1) “Public agency” means: (a) Any state board, commission, committee, department, educational institution, or other state agency which is created by or pursuant to statute, other than courts and the legislature; Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 16 (b) Any county, city, school district, special purpose district, or other municipal corporation or political subdivision of the state of Washington; (c) Any subagency of a public agency which is created by or pursuant to statute, ordinance, or other legislative act, including but not limited to planning commissions, library or park boards, commissions, and agencies; • Does the OPMA address quorum? o All meetings of the governing body of a public agency shall be open and public…, except as otherwise provided in this chapter. RCW 42.30.030 • Can the OPMA apply to < quorum? (2)”Governing body” means the multimember board, commission, committee, council, or other policy or rule-making body of a public agency, or any committee thereof when the committee acts on behalf of the governing body, conducts hearings, or takes testimony or public comment. RCW 42.30.020 Committees • Can OPMA apply to <quorum? o RCW 42.30.020 …any committee thereof when the committee: 1. Acts on behalf of the governing body 2. Conducts hearings, or 3. Takes testimony or public comment Mr. Taraday explained out of an abundance of caution and in the interest of transparency and providing information to the public, he has advised that council committees be treated as if they were subject to OPMA. The code expressly allows other councilmembers to attend committee meetings and ask questions so there is the possibility of a quorum. Mr. Taraday described how the courts have interpreted the OPMA related to when is a committee a committee of the governing body and when does a committee act on behalf of the governing body using Citizens Alliance v. San Juan County. The above portion of the presentation included council questions and discussion regarding four councilmembers attending a committee meeting, difference between a task force created by the mayor versus the council, tension in OPMA between efficiency and transparency, mayoral committees exempt from OPMA because committee reports to mayor not council, whether the administration rather than the council should create task forces so they have more freedom and flexibility, whether there was anything in code about mayoral task forces, whether OPMA applies to a council taskforce/subcommittee, use of public funds to provide refreshments to a mayoral taskforce, when a committees is subject to OPMA, and a past council working group regarding the marsh that directed work to be performed by the consultant. Serial Meetings Mr. Taraday described how the court interpreted serial meetings using the Citizens Alliance v. San Juan County and Egan v. City of Seattle. • Graphical depiction of how communications occurred between four San Juan County councilmembers Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 17 Questions and discussion followed regarding past administration’s efforts to garner council support, legal and illegal vote counting, ability for a mayor to count votes, individual intent versus collective decision, collective intent to meet, accidental violation via email, use of email outside council meetings potentially depriving the public of access to information, caution about councilmembers cc'ing or bcc’ing other councilmembers, and passive receipt of emails. Conditions on Attendance • Can conditions be placed on attendance at council meetings? o RCW 42.30.040 states: A member of the public shall not be required as a condition to attendance at a meeting of a governing body, to register his or her name and other information, to complete a questionnaire, or otherwise to fulfill any condition precedent to his or her attendance. Mr. Taraday described how the court interpreted conditions on attendance using Zink v. City of Mesa. Governor’s Proclamation • OPMA changes due to pandemic o Gubernatorial proclamation 20-28 o 15 versions, most recent January 19, 2021 o In effect until termination of state of emergency o Prohibition: Any public agency subject to RCW 42.30 is prohibited from conducting a public meeting subject to RCW 42.30 unless (a) the meeting is not conducted in person and instead provides an option(s) for the public to attend the proceeds through, at a minimum, telephonic access, and may also include other electronic, internet or other means of remote access, and (b) provides the ability for all persons attending the meeting to hear each other at the same time. o Exemption from prohibition: As an exception of the above prohibition, public agencies holding public meetings may, at their option and in addition to hosting the remote meeting elements described above, include an in-person component to a public meeting if all of the following requirements are met: 1. The public meeting complies with the guidelines for “business meetings,” and 2. Any person wishing to attend in person a public meeting with an in-person component must be able to do so at a physical location meeting the requirements herein, either at a primary meeting location or an overflow physical location that provides the ability for all persons attending the meeting to hear each other at the same time; and 3. If at any time during a public meeting the in-person component cannot comply with each of the requirements herein, the public meeting (to include the telephonic/remote access portions) must be recessed until compliance is restored or if compliance cannot be restored then adjourned, continued, or otherwise terminated; and Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 18 4. The public agency holding an in-person public meeting shall accommodate, to the extent practicable, those wishing to participate in and/or attend the public meeting (to include the press) by allowing persons to attend the meeting by listening and speaking through operable telecommunications devices. Mr. Taraday offered to continue with the Miscellaneous section of his presentation at a future meeting. Council President Olson expressed her appreciation for the training, and said she will prioritize training at a meeting very soon. (Councilmember Paine left the meeting at 4:16 p.m.) 2. REPRESENTATION OF THE UNHEARD VOICES Council President Olson explained this agenda item was in response to a topic raised regarding how to represent all voices especially the quiet ones. She recalled a video in the Diversity Commission’s film series on civil rights leader Dolores Huerta whose example of representing unheard voices was to live among them. She was unable to book Ms. Huerta for the retreat, and thought of another person she met through Councilmember Chen a few years ago, Ileona Ponce-Gonzalez, who started a non-profit after seeing firsthand how members of primarily the Latino community were using harsh chemicals that affected their health, but were unaware because the precautions were in English. One of the things the non-profit has done is to change the labeling to pictures so it is transferable and crossed all language barriers. Council President Olson shared a video that Ileona Ponce-Gonzalez, founder and executive director of Community Health Worker Coalition for Migrants and Refugees, created for the retreat because she was unable to attend in person. Council comments included: • Latino is largest minority in City, need to recognize and have special events for them in the future. Something for the Diversity Commission to take on. • Important to celebrate various cultures. Chinese New Year was a good example, need to do more cultural things, reach out to various communities and translate City information. • It is sometimes difficult for people to participate and be involved due to language differences. Sometimes work schedules do not allow participation in council meetings, school projects and student events. The City could benefit from more involvement with the Latino community. • When people immigrate to the United States, sometime they work multiple jobs to survive. The City needs to find ways to let them know they are part of the community and are celebrated. Lunar New Year was a great example of a cultural celebration. Make extra effort and create events so they feel a sense of belonging. • Lunar New Year meant a great deal to the Latino community, the idea of the City recognizing and acknowledging a minority community. It got them excited and hopeful about an event featuring what they bring to the community. The City may want to have an event to recognize and celebrate Juneteenth. Possibly there could be Edmonds Community Days that starts with Juneteenth and extends through July 4th, an opportunity to celebrate all cultures. • The Latino community has the same concerns as the rest of the community including homelessness, graffiti, prostitution, shelter and protection for day workers, and wanting to come together as Edmonds residents. • Asking ourselves what we don’t know is important in representing unheard voices. There are many unheard voices including the Latino population. • Find ways to celebrate and engage different ethnic groups. Could have an international day which would be very educational and would help people realize they are all part of the community. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes February 25, 2022 Page 19 Councilmembers shared their favorite quotes or quotes by Maya Angelou provided by Council President Olson: • Chinese character for peace. Chinese proverb: “If there is light in the soul there will be beauty in the person. If there’s beauty in the person there will be harmony in the house. If there’s harmony in the house there’ll be order in the nation, if there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. May we all have light in the soul so we can have peace in the world.” • “People will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” • “You did the best that you know how, now that you know, you’ll do better.” • “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of neutrality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.” – Martin Luther King, Jr. • Quotes by Maya Angelou o Rules for Success 1. Just do right 2. Be courageous 3. Love 4. Laugh 5. Be a blessing to somebody 6. Turn struggles into triumphs 7. You are talented 8. Learn to say no 9. Always do your best 10. Keep rising o “If we lose love and self-respect for each other, this is how we finally die. The lack of respect and love for other human beings only causes pain and chaos. There have been ancient civilizations that perished because of anger and selfishness. We will kill off the human race and poison our planet if we do not change. How can you connect to someone today with more love and respect?” o “The ache for home lives in all of us. The safe place where we can go as we are and not be questioned.” o “Hate has caused a lot of problem in the world, but has not solved one yet.” o “Politicians must set their aims for the high ground and according to our various leanings. Democratic, republican, we will follow. Politicians must be told if they continue to sink into the mud of obscenity, they will precede alone.” o “You have to develop ways so that you can take up for yourself and then you take up for someone else and so sooner or later you have enough courage to really stand up for the human race and say I am a representative.” Council President Olson thanked councilmembers for attending, noting it was a long day and she hoped they had gotten something out of it. 10. ADJOURN With no further business, the council meeting was adjourned at 4:57 p.m.