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Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
May 3, 2022
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EDMONDS CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING
APPROVED MINUTES
May 3, 2022
ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT
Mike Nelson, Mayor
Vivian Olson, Council President
Kristiana Johnson, Councilmember
Will Chen, Councilmember
Neil Tibbott, Councilmember
Diane Buckshnis, Councilmember
Susan Paine, Councilmember
Laura Johnson, Councilmember
STAFF PRESENT
Jeff Taraday, City Attorney
Scott Passey, City Clerk
Dave Rohde, GIS Analyst
Jerrie Bevington, Camera Operator
1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
The Edmonds City Council meeting was called to order at 6:03 p.m. by Mayor Nelson in the Council
Chambers, 250 5th Avenue North, Edmonds, and virtually.
2. COUNCIL BUSINESS
1. RESOLUTION ADOPTING COUNCIL RULES OF PROCEDURE
Council President Olson explained this was first introduced by City Clerk Scott Passey who worked for
the City of Shoreline before coming to Edmonds and felt their rules of procedure had been helpful to the
process. Additionally, the parliamentarian who has provided training to the council in the past, Ann
Macfarlane, says there is value to having additional rules above and beyond Robert’s Rules of Order
which only focus on the meeting itself. The rules of procedure have been reviewed by a council
committee in the past, the last time was September 21, 2021. She invited councilmembers to ask
questions after which she would read each section followed by questions, comments, or amendments.
There were no questions.
Section 1. Authority, Paragraphs 1.1, 1.2 1.3
No questions/comments.
Section 2 Council Organization
• 2.1 (swearing in councilmembers)
• 2.2 (election of council president and council president pro tem)
Councilmember Buckshnis pointed out there was no reference to the unspoken rule that councilmembers
planning to run for office cannot be council president. She recalled a certain councilmember had to be
appointed because they were the only one not running for office and even through some councilmembers
did not necessarily want that person as council president. There is also no reference to the situation when
someone is leaving the council; she recalled two situations where councilmembers left and the decision
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May 3, 2022
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was left to the mayor due to a tie. She asked whether the intent was to have issues such as that addressed
tonight, or to have councilmembers develop amended language. Council President Olson answered it may
be more expedient to put amendments in writing so they can be displayed when this topic returns to
council. She suggested councilmembers submit suggestions to the council assistants.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she did not believe a councilmember should not be prevented from
serving as council president just because they were retiring or running for office. If they feel capable of
serving as council president and have the trust of other councilmembers, it should be allowed and there
should not be an unspoken rule to that effect.
Councilmember Paine commented she would like to be able to read an amendment before she votes on it.
It is a best practice and cleaner for citizens not to have a council president who is running for office that
year. It makes it more difficult to discern what is election behavior versus council president behavior.
Councilmember L. Johnson referred to unspoken rules, pointing out the point of rules of procedure is to
identify the procedures the council is agreeing to operate by. She did not see the need to address unspoken
rules. She found it confusing to bring up unspoken rules instead of speaking directly to the document.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she was just bringing up examples from the past 12 years. She was aware
of two examples where the mayor selected the council president which was not the will of council. She
was also aware of two councilmembers who wanted to be considered for council president but were told
they couldn’t because one was running for election and the other was retiring. Sometimes it is helpful to
understand what has happened in the past in order to address rules for the future.
Council President Olson said bringing up those things may be helpful in deciding what should be
included in the rules. She believed not allowing someone who was running for office to serve as council
president was a good idea and if they ended up getting elected as council president before they made that
decision, they could be replaced via another council election. She did not see a reason to exclude
councilmembers who were retiring from serving as council president. She agreed the tie should not be
broken by the mayor, it should be a vote of the council and some compromises would need to be made by
the council as a body. She expressed support for that rule. She explained the intent was to take feedback
on the rules; councilmembers could prepare the amended language or submit their suggestion to the
council assistants and slides would be prepared for council review.
Councilmember Tibbott expressed support for allowing councilmembers who are retiring to be considered
for council president. From a political angle, it makes sense that councilmembers running for office
should not be considered for council president. He expressed strong encouragement to have the council
assistants draft that amendment and bring it to council at a future meeting.
Councilmember K. Johnson said she submitted eight amendments regarding the rules of procedure to Mr.
Passey today. She asked if she should make comments during the presentation or wait until the meeting
when slides were prepared of all the amendments. Mayor Nelson suggested she raise the issue when it
was relevant to the subject.
Councilmember K. Johnson said no councilmembers should be council president two years in a row and
she had a proposed amendment with that language. She also suggested it would be helpful to take
longevity into account when selecting council presidents.
Council President Olson relayed it was decided instead of making amendments today, amendments would
be put in writing on a slide. She has written down Councilmember K. Johnson’s comments and will have
a slide prepared for council action.
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Councilmember Buckshnis asked Councilmember K. Johnson what she defined as longevity, whether it
was 2 or 3 years, noting it was difficult to define longevity when councilmembers have 4 year terms.
Mayor Nelson requested councilmembers address the body and not specific councilmember.
Councilmember K. Johnson said she would define longevity as number of years as a councilmember.
• 2.3 Duties of Officers
o A. (presiding officer)
Council President Olson pointed out under state law, the mayor is the presiding officer.
o B. (duties of presiding officer)
Councilmember L. Johnson suggested the rules also state the presiding officer adjourns the meeting.
Regarding duty #4 (state each motion before it is voted upon), Councilmember Tibbott commented the
motion is often not restated before it is voted on. In general that is a good practice but is not always done.
He asked whether the council wanted that to be optional or a requirement. His preference would be to
follow this rule.
Councilmember Paine expressed appreciation for the suggestion and agreed the best practice would be to
restate motion, however, sometimes the motion is somewhat garbled. She suggested the councilmember
who made the motion restate it so their intent is clear rather than getting locked up in an interpretation
loop.
Council President Olson the intent of the rules was what councilmembers think the council should be
doing and what they want to have as guidelines; it does not necessarily reflect what the council is doing
now.
o C. (questions of order)
• 2.4 Appointments to Boards and Committees
Council President Olson questioned whether circulating the final appointment list to the council at least
seven days prior to appointment was practical based on the election of the council president at the first
Tuesday in January and councilmembers are expected to attend meetings that month.
Councilmember Paine said last year she surveyed councilmembers asking for feedback and gave the list
to the incoming council president. She felt circulating the final appointments seven days prior to
appointment would not always be a problem.
Councilmember Buckshnis said the legislative assistant used to send out the list to councilmembers and
the council president would make the committee assignments the night they were elected. She was unsure
a timeframe needed to be included in the rules. It does not necessarily need to be a task for the council
president and could be delegated to the council assistants. However, when there are new councilmembers,
there should be an opportunity for them to understand the committees before making a selection.
Councilmember Chen suggested 14 days. He recalled during the last election, there was also a transition
in the council assistant.
Council President Olson asked if the seven days was just to circulate information or give councilmembers
seven days’ notice after the assignments are made. She requested councilmembers with further
information reach out to her.
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• 2.5 Filling a Council Vacancy
o A. (procedures in RCW)
o B. (application form)
Councilmember Paine suggested including a draft application in the rules of procedures.
o C. (interviews)
o D. (executive session to discuss qualifications)
o E. (term of appointed councilmember)
Section 3. Agenda Preparation
• 3.1 (preparation of meeting agenda)
• 3.2 (placing items on agenda)
Council President Olson offered an amendment, instead of a majority vote, a vote of 3 or more
councilmembers and also changing the majority vote in the last paragraph. Her rationale was three
councilmembers wanting to talk about something should be enough to have it heard.
Councilmember K. Johnson pointed out in the past, she was able to work with the council president to get
something on the agenda and she did not think a majority should be required to have something on the
agenda. Council President Olson commented that was addressed in 3.2.B, if the council president agrees,
something can be placed on the agenda which is how it has worked this year. In the case when the council
president does not think something is a good idea, does not want to put it on the agenda, there should be
some recourse for a significant minority to say they want to talk about something.
Councilmember Buckshnis suggested on issues that the council president does not deem necessary to
place on the agenda, an item could be put on the agenda via a vote. She recalled many instances in recent
years where items were not added to the agenda because there were not four votes.
Councilmember Paine asked if this would be a departure from Robert’s Rules. City Attorney Jeff Taraday
said it probably would be. It is one thing to have an item added to the agenda in advance of a meeting, but
if a majority of the council does not want to talk about that item, it can be tabled. At the end of the day,
the majority will always control the agenda. An item might be on agenda for the public to see, but it may
not get more than 10 seconds of discussion if the majority does not want to talk about it.
Councilmember K. Johnson said that would be a way for the majority to rule, but she objected to the fact
that she had agenda items prepared and ready to go, asked for them to be put on the agenda, and it was not
done, to the point where they became irrelevant. That has been the practice during the two previous years,
but prior to that, she was always able to get something on agenda. There is too much power with the
council president deciding whether or not a councilmember’s agenda memo is appropriate for the
meeting. She wanted something in the rules of procedures that acknowledges the ability for a
councilmember to get an item on the agenda and it could be tabled if the majority did not want to discuss
it.
• 3.3 (agenda memos)
• 3.4 (agenda item prioritization)
• 3.5 (ordinances readings)
o A. (first reading)
o B. (second reading)
Councilmember Buckshnis commented the three touch rule has been discussed by council often. She
suggested there be exceptions to that rule, instances where an item does not require three touches. The
first reading, publication on the extended agenda, is not actual a reading. She recalled instances in the past
where only the PLN number was listed on the extended agenda so people did not know what the item was
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May 3, 2022
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about. She suggested land use items listed on the extended agenda include more than the file number and
include the topic such as the tree code. Having an item on the extended agenda is actually notification, not
first reading and first reading occurs at either committee or at council. She suggested revising this section
because it is not really a three touch rule; it is notification, committee and then council. Council President
Olson suggested it may not be three readings, but it is three touches. She offered to assist with revising
the language of this section.
Councilmember Tibbott asked if it would be possible to have the extended agenda included at the end of
the packet. He recalled that was done when he was on the planning board so board members knew what
was coming up. It would serve as notification for the public as well as the council. Council President
Olson advised the extended agenda is available on the website and asked if he preferred to have it as part
of the council packet each week. Councilmember Tibbott suggested notification would be more accessible
that way and it could eliminate the possibility that people are not aware of upcoming agenda items.
Councilmember Buckshnis recalled when there were paper packets, the extended agenda was included as
part of the packet and some council presidents even included when councilmembers would be on
vacation. She agreed it was important to have the extended agenda as part the of packet so
councilmembers do not have to search for it on the website.
Councilmember Paine expressed support for having the extended appended to the back of the electronic
packet or printed for those who receive paper packets, with the recognition that the extended agenda is a
snapshot in time on the Friday it is included with the packet.
o C. (third reading)
Section 4. Consent Agenda
• 4.1 (placing items on consent agenda)
Councilmember Paine commented if committees are used effectively, all the low hanging fruit items go to
committees and then to the consent agenda. She suggested adding that one of the council touches can be
at council committee. Consent agendas can be used very effectively, be great time savers, and help
meetings flow smoothly.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she did not like the first sentence as all items that go to committee then
go to the consent agenda, full council or back to committee for further discussion. She suggested
including the fact that consent agenda items are often referred by committee.
• 4.2 (adoption of consent agenda)
• 4.3 (removing items from consent agenda)
Councilmember Buckshnis commented pulling something from the consent agenda and moving it to a
future agenda would be a council decision, not the mayor’s decision.
3. INTERVIEW FOR APPOINTMENT TO CITY BOARD OR COMMISSION
1. INTERVIEW CANDIDATE FOR APPOINTMENT TO BOARD/COMMISSION
Mayor Nelson said he recommended Mr. Toretta for appointment to the sister city commission.
Councilmembers interviewed Colin Toretta for appointment to the sister city commission position #11
(responses in italics). Council President Olson welcomed Mr. Toretta and invited him to describe his
interest in the sister city commission.
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My wife and I have lived in Edmonds for nine years. We were both born and raised in Washington and
have fallen in love with Edmonds. Last year I started thinking about ways to get more involved with the
community and happened to run into Mayor Nelson at a ribbon cutting and asked his advice. He
mentioned Edmonds has a number of citizen boards and encouraged me to see if anything interested me. I
looked at the options, and as exciting as the cemetery board sounds, the sister city commission sounded
more up my alley, both from my personal interest and work experience. I think I can add value to the
board.
Councilmember Paine commented it sounded like he had great experience and asked if he spoke
Japanese. No, but this could finally give me good justification to learn.
Councilmember Tibbott commented this is a fun committee. Although he has not been on the committee
himself, he has participated in the social events. He asked Mr. Toretta if he had participated in any of the
social events in the past. Not with the sister city commission. It wasn’t until I looked at the boards that I
realized Edmonds had a sister city program. I was fascinated by sister city program in Spokane where I
grew up which was also a Japanese town.
Councilmember Tibbott asked if he would have time available to participate in social events when the
Hekinan delegations visit Edmonds. Absolutely. This is what I’m looking for, an opportunity, a way to
spend time with the community, give back to Edmonds and what better way than to introduce people from
another country and culture to all the cools things in Edmonds and Washington.
Councilmember K. Johnson said she has participated in some of the activities, both with adult and student
delegations. The student delegations are very exciting because the kids have so much energy. She asked
what prompted his lifelong interest in Japan. Part of it is Spokane’s sister city program and growing up in
1980s, that was about as much multi-culture I was exposed to. My father was art an major at Gonzaga
and infused a love of art in his children from an early age including Japanese artists such as Hokusi’s
crashing wave painting. I became interested in other aspects of Japanese artistry such the artist who
turned graphic design for video games and anime into world class art. More recently my wife and I had
an opportunity see Yayoi Kusama’s traveling exhibit at the Seattle Art Museum who does amazing things
with perspective, shape and emotions. I cannot say for sure what caused that to resonate so much for me,
but it has definitely something that interested me from an early age.
Councilmember K. Johnson commented it was interesting that the arts communicated cultural diversity to
him in such a way. I believe in the power of art to connect people of different cultures.
Councilmember L. Johnson referred to his application which states he was always fascinated with
Spokane’s sister city and asked him to expand on how the program connected two different cultures. In a
place like Spokane in the 1980s, there weren’t a lot of ways to get exposure to other cultures. The sister
city programs offered a way for people pre-internet to understand how big and different the world is,
provide an opportunity for student and adult exchanges, and make it more real and tangible and less
theoretical.
Councilmember Buckshnis commented this is a really fun committee. She recalled one year when the
adult delegation made beer and another time there was a Halloween party. It is really a multicultural
experience. His job as director of program management for Oracle is a perfect position for him because he
collaborates with many people.
Councilmember Chen thanked him for devoting his energy to this fun commission. He asked his thoughts
about Mt. Fuji versus Mt. Rainier, which one is more attractive. Mt. Fuji has definitely had a larger
impact on art and culture than Mt. Rainer, although I’ve only seen one of them firsthand. I have definitely
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appreciated Rainier, but would like to have an opportunity go to Japan and see such a storied mountain
that has featured so prominently in so many aspects of Japanese culture, from movies to art, video games,
TV shows and everything in between.
Council President Olson advised confirmation is on the consent agenda; once it is approved, his
appointment will be approved.
4. ADJOURN
With no further business, the Council meeting was adjourned at 6:55 p.m.