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Cmd52022 spec mtg Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 1 EDMONDS CITY COUNCIL ONLINE VIRTUAL SPECIAL MEETING APPROVED MINUTES May 20, 2022 ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT Vivian Olson, Council President Kristiana Johnson, Councilmember Will Chen, Councilmember Neil Tibbott, Councilmember Diane Buckshnis, Councilmember Susan Paine, Councilmember ELECTED OFFICIALS ABSENT Mike Nelson, Mayor Laura Johnson, Councilmember STAFF PRESENT Dave Turley, Administrative Services Director Jeff Taraday, City Attorney’s Office Beth Ford, City Attorney’s Office Angela Tinker, City Attorney’s Office Nicholas Falk, Deputy City Clerk Deb Powers, Urban Forest Planner BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT Roger Pence, Vice Chair Planning Board Mike Rosen, Planning Board Member 1. CALL TO ORDER/FLAG SALUTE The Edmonds City Council virtual online meeting was called to order at 10:06 a.m. by Council President Olson. The meeting was opened with the flag salute. 2. ROLL CALL Deputy City Clerk Nicholas Falk called the roll. All elected officials were present, participating remotely, with the exception of Councilmember L. Johnson and Mayor Nelson. 4. AUDIENCE COMMENTS Kevin Reidy, Edmonds, referred to Slide 189 in today’s presentation which states, “When serving on a public body, members have a duty to uphold the decision of that body even if they disagree with it.” Slide 190, on the topic of disagreement, states “Members may express their disagreement in public, but may not attempt to undermine the decision. They are free to try to persuade their colleagues, during the meeting to change the decision (within limits).” Slide 191 states, “We all went to be right. It’s human nature to be unhappy when you oppose the decision. Our current culture places a strong premium on individuality. I invite you to commit yourself to a bigger principle than your own views.” Slide 192 states, “Why? After everyone’s voice is heard, including the minority, it is the majority that makes the decision.” Slide 193 states, “Lost vote? Don’t sabotage the council’s action. We’ve had inquiries recently about elected officials who lost the vote and they actively worked against the outcome. This amounts to trying to sabotage the council. It is wrong, wrong, wrong. The majority rules.” Mr. Reidy hoped the council would have a good, robust conversation about this during today’s training. He also hoped the council would find a way to discuss what should happen in the event the agenda packet is Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 2 incomplete. He suggested the council ask the trainer what should be done if council discovers it was provided false or incomplete information before a vote. He also suggested discussing how public comments work especially during public hearings. In the event city staff or the city attorney addresses what was said during the public hearing or adds new information that citizens did not know about before the public hearing, he suggested adding a procedure to allow citizens to speak again after the new information is provided. As the training was scheduled to begin at 10:30 a.m., Council President Olson declared a recess. The meeting was reconvened at 10:31 a.m. 3. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA 5. COUNCIL BUSINESS 1. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE TRAINING Councilmembers and other attendees introduced themselves. Council President Olson introduced Ann Macfarlane, Professional Registered Parliamentarian, Jurassic Parliament, and described her education and background. Ms. Macfarlane advised Robert’s Rules and Jurassic Parliament are her favorite topics. She presented, Great City Council Meetings. She reviewed: • Introduction - Why are we here? o To invigorate you to run effective meetings to serve the community o After taking this training you will be able to: 1. Apply the authority of the chair and members for more efficient meetings 2. Follow best practices for fair discussion 3. Respond to disorder and difficult people 4. Make motions and amendments 5. Run effective public comment sessions o Disclaimer – The material contained in this presentation is based upon the principles and practices of parliamentary procedure. I am not an attorney and nothing in this presentation constitutes legal advice. o Workshop Method ▪ We are in the League of Northwest Dino Cities ▪ This is not entirely realistic – it is a fantasy – but there is some overlap with real life! ▪ Members of the Dinopolis City Council o Call meeting to order o Quorum o Serial Meeting o Agenda o Simplified Standard Order of Business o Regular agenda/consent agenda ▪ Consent agenda - Don’t include reports in consent agenda  Reports requiring action should be included as a separate agenda item - Don’t include written public comment in consent agenda o Purpose of minutes ▪ Minutes record what is done, not what is said ▪ Detailed minutes are a bad idea ▪ Include time stamps in minutes Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 3 Councilmember Buckshnis commented the council has had detailed minutes for over a decade, something that the current council inherited. Now that there are videos of the meetings, shorter minutes may be something the council should move toward. She asked Ms. Macfarlane to describe how the council could do that. Ms. Macfarlane said Edmonds is not alone and she sees this often, but Edmonds is fortunate to have a superb city clerk who is very aware of this issue and wrote a memo for his previous city about it. She suggested the council confer with City Clerk Scott Passey about this. There are choices; the council can include time stamps in the minutes so anyone who wants to watch the detailed discussion can do so easily. There are action minutes that record only the actions taken or summary minutes that list the main points of argument made without attributing them to individuals. She will include in the packet of information provided to council Guidelines for Meeting Minutes in Local Government. Council President Olson commented this is a special meeting and she did not ask council prior to the meeting what approach they preferred for the minutes of this meeting. Typically for meetings that are more retreat oriented or training, summary minutes are prepared for the training and detailed minutes for the remainder. She asked Ms. Macfarlane if she could propose that now. Ms. Macfarlane answered yes, explaining it was very customary for minutes of training just to state something like, “Ann Macfarlane presented training on parliamentary procedure.” At a special meeting, the council cannot conduct any other business than what was on the agenda. Council President Olson asked if it would be within the authority of the council president to make that decision or should she ask that question of the body. Ms. Macfarlane answered she could ask the body or she could simply say the council president proposes we handle it this way and ask for any objections. Council President Olson proposed detailed minutes for the front end of the meeting and very summary minutes for the training itself. She asked if there were any objection. Councilmember Paine recalled Ms. Macfarlane had mentioned this during previous training as has Mr. Passey. She asked if the proposal was for this meeting only or for this point forward. Council President Olson answered for this meeting only. Observing no objection was voiced, Council President Olson advised that was how the meeting would proceed. Ms. Macfarlane stated she was glad the council was willing to consider this as it makes a huge difference and will save the city a lot of money. She continued her presentation: • Meeting discussion, Point of Order and Appeal o Exercise – raising the parking fee o Principle of equality – All members have equal rights, privileges and obligations o Key point – discussion in council meetings is not a conversation, it is a debate and has its own rules o Fundamental guideline – no one may speak a second time until everyone who wishes to do so has spoken twice o Equity and inclusion – each person has equal voice o Making a point of order ▪ Member makes point of order ▪ Chair rules on the point ▪ Chair’s rulings can be appealed Questions and comments followed regarding whether remarks made prior to a motion count as a councilmember’s speaking turn, current practice of allowing each councilmember to speak for 10 minutes, Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 4 establishing a shorter time limit for council comments, how long a councilmember should be allowed to speak off topic before raising a point of order, no rule in Robert’s against repeating oneself, and no such thing in Robert’s as point of clarification. Ms. Macfarlane continued: • How to do this? o Seeking recognition o Duty to remain silent o Written materials: Rights and Responsibilities of the Member o Fundamental guideline – no one may speak a second time until everyone who wishes to do so has spoken once and no cross talk between councilmembers ▪ Keeping track of who has spoken and wishes to speak - Speaking chart - Round robin o Interrupting o No sidebars or texting o Councilmember keep cameras on o Structuring discussion can be frustrating o It is the duty of the chair to expedite business in every way compatible with the rights of the members o Set time limits for agenda items o Set time limits on dividual councilmember speeches – 3 to 5 minutes ▪ Can be suspended or changed by a two-thirds vote without debate o Make a timely motion to extend at least 15 minutes in advance of the scheduled end time o Written materials provided: Time Limits Create Productive Meetings o Fundamental guideline – courtesy and respect toward each other are required o Remarks that are inappropriate during a council meeting 1. Personal remarks about other members (except for conflict of interest) 2. Discourteous remarks – insulting language, attacks 3. Inflammatory language 4. Criticizing past actions of the group (unless subject is under discussion, or member is about to propose to amend or rescind the action at the end of their speech) 5. Remarks that are not germane (relevant) to the discussion o Written materials provided: Inappropriate Remarks on Local Government Councils o Personal remarks o Body language and gestures o Cheat sheet: Wait! Wait! What should I say? o The focus of meetings – words on paper and motions o If a question arises whether a remark is appropriate or not or a comment is germane, chair rules, subject to appeal or can ask members to decide o Written materials provided: Sample Discussion Guidelines for Local Governments Questions and comments followed regarding pros and cons of a round robin format, asking a follow-up question in a round robin format, round robin format allowing all members to speak, ability for a councilmember to suggest using a round robin format, delays caused by councilmembers not speaking during round robin, ability to do one round of round robin followed by councilmembers being recognized, keeping track of councilmembers’ speaking time during Q&A, not allowing a lengthy Q&A between a councilmember and staff, allowing councilmembers to ask 1-2 questions before proceeding to the next councilmember, establishing a time limit for Q&A, motion to extend the meeting is not debatable, perception of body language, making inappropriate remarks or bully pulpit comments during council or mayor comments agenda item, applicability of Robert’s Rules during mayor/council comments, Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 5 councilmembers committing themselves to the principles of courtesy and respect, establishing a general limit for council speeches and extending it (via motion) when necessary, process for establishing a time limit, how documenting something that is considered insulting to the body would be done with streamlined minutes, and how the statement of a factual error is addressed. The meeting was recessed from 10:48 to 12:00 p.m. Questions and comments ensued regarding taking breaks during council meetings (scheduled or by motion), point of personal privilege and point of general privilege, and raising a question during a vote. Ms. Macfarlane continued her presentation: • Motions and Amendments o Main Motion ▪ Keep staff questions separate from discussion ▪ Including draft motions in an agenda ▪ When a new motion can be made ▪ Characteristics of a Main Motion ▪ Fundamental guideline – one thing at a time ▪ How to introduce a Main Motion - Members must be clear - State the exact motion clearly - You can request a moment to write it down ▪ Seconding a motion - If there is no second, chair states there being no second, the motion will not be considered and the chair moves immediately to the next item of business ▪ You cannot speak against your own motion ▪ Eight steps to process a motion 1. Member makes motion 2. Another member seconds motion 3. Chair states motion 4. Members debate and/or amend motion 5. Chair restates and calls for vote 6. Members vote on motion 7. Chair states results of vote, whether motion passes or fails and what happens next as a result of the vote 8. Chair states next item of business ▪ Point of information ▪ Voting ▪ No debate during voting ▪ Changing your vote – can change up until the chair announces the result ▪ Abstain ▪ Recuse from a vote due to conflict of interest - MRSC Post (www.mrsc.org): Resolving Financial Conflicts of Interest: Is Abstaining from Voting Enough ▪ Unanimous consent for minor procedural matters o Amendment ▪ Duty to be clear ▪ Four ways to amend 1. Add or insert words 2. Strike out words 3. Strike out words and insert words in their place Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 6 4. Substitute ▪ Do not use substitute amendments - Instead of substitute, councilmember urges colleagues to vote against and if defeated, propose a different motion ▪ Amendment process same as main motion ▪ Vote on amendment before vote on main motion o Exercise: Motion practice (using various dinosaurs) o Additional amendments are possible o Friendly amendment – handled as any other amendment o Secondary amendment (amend the amendment) o Amendments are not included in the minutes o Call the question Questions and comments followed regarding the current situation of confusing motions, how to clearly state a motion, ability for the chair to declare stand at ease to allow a councilmember to formulate a motion, the city attorney’s offer to assist councilmembers with drafting a motion, ability for a councilmember to change their vote during roll call, motion to reconsider to change a councilmember’s vote, whether an explanation regarding an abstention is necessary, confusion caused by substitute amendments, Ms. Macfarlane providing suggestions for the council rules, Robert’s Rules about speaking twice applies to large boards, including the number of times/length of time a councilmember may speak in the council rules, and Robert’s Rules vs. council rules of procedure. Ms. Macfarlane conducted an exercise to practice making motions and voting. She continued her presentation: o The meeting is not about your opinions o Do not feel obligated to speak to every motion o Just vote the way your conscience tells you o Ways to kill a topic • Who’s in charge? o Role of chair o Role of mayor in discussion o Written materials: Can the Mayor Take Part in Discussion o Recommendation: Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief, spiral-bound edition, available only from the National Association of Parliamentarians (www.parliamentarians.org) o Order of Authority U.S. Constitution  Federal law  State law  Charter, articles of incorporation, or code  Bylaws or council rules  Special rules of order  Robert’s Rules of Order o Council rules have higher authority than Robert’s Rules o Accountability hierarchy ▪ Boss at the top, employees underneath ▪ Volunteer Association - leader is a peer, all have equal power Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 7 - Key points - each member has an equal right to speak and to try to persuade others to accept their view. During meetings, the chair controls the process so the group can make decisions - Fundamental guideline – during meetings, the chair is the servant of the group, and the group is the final authority o Each person’s individual authority ▪ Legislation is the prerogative of the council. Mayor supports council, but does not decide ▪ Administration is the prerogative of the mayor. The council may not interfere o Councilmembers may not do the work of the city ▪ Duty as a councilmember – debate and determine overall strategy, policy and legislation for city ▪ Leave details of operation to mayor and staff o Vigorous discussion on motions ▪ It’s okay to disagree ▪ At the end of the day, the body must unite behind its decision o Disagreement ▪ Members may express their disagreement in public, but may not attempt to undermine the decision ▪ They are free to try to persuade their colleagues, during the meeting to change the decision (within limit) ▪ After everyone’s voice has been heard, including the minority, it is the majority that make the decision o Written materials provided: Lost the vote? Don’t Sabotage the Council’s Action Questions/comments followed regarding councilmembers providing opinions on social media and MRSC articles regarding social media policies. Ms. Macfarlane continued: • Public comment o Robert’s Rules of Order contains very little guidance on public comment o Public hearing vs. public comment o Be consistent with regard to public comment o Following time limits o Do not dialogue o The public may have different expectations o Audience relations o Time, place and manner o Capturing public comment o Comment vs. disruption o How chair and member should act on the dais during public comment o How to respond to public comment o Attacks on staff o Concluding with thanks o Other channels for public comment o Written materials provided: Guidelines for Public Comment in Local Government o Sample public comment announcement • The right kind of control o Three things you must have 1. Knowledge of how this system works 2. A majority on your council in favor of civility and this system. 3. The personal moxie, chutzpah, energy and drive to put it all into practice. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 8 o Chair controls who speaks when o Duty to obey the chair o Chair guide members by stating the obvious o Keep things moving! Be brisk! Speak crisply! Firm but not harsh! o Cheat Sheet: Language Tips for Meeting Management o When in doubt, ask the group o Why we need rules o Vision ▪ Each member expresses their personal views on topics before the council with vigor, energy, commitment, and respect. ▪ Once the vote is taken, personal opinions and political views are less important than the majority vote of the council. ▪ Members accept the decision and move on without rancor or bitterness Questions/comments continued regarding how to provide opportunity for meaningful engagement with constituents while preserving adequate time to get business completed, format for the public to provide written comments to the council, purpose of oral public comment to inform councilmember and does not need to be captured in the minutes, council comments after a vote has been taken, parliamentary procedure versus politics, and free speech versus attempting to undermine a decision. • Conclusion o Written material: Minor Mistakes Don’t Invalidate Action o Keep in Touch ▪ Subscribe to monthly newsletter ▪ Subscribe to the blog on their website ▪ Email anytime o Book: Mastering Council Meetings o Purpose of meetings under Robert’s Rules o Written materials provided: Follow Four Fundamental Guidelines for Successful Meetings and Essential Guidelines for City Councils o Written materials provided: Citizen’s Guide to Effective Conduct of Public Meetings Using Parliamentary Procedure and Robert’s Rules of Order in Washington State o Quote by Samuel Johnson, British author: “Kindness is within our power. Liking is not.” Councilmembers thanked Ms. Macfarlane for her presentation. Council President Olson thanked councilmembers and board members for participating in the workshop. 6. MAYOR AND COUNCIL COMMENTS - OPTIONAL Councilmember Chen thanked the members of the public and board members for taking the time to participate in this training, noting it demonstrates their commitment. Councilmember Tibbott commented there were a number of things presented today that would be especially helpful for the council’s process, particularly the eight steps to process a motion, 1) member makes motion, 2) another member seconds motion, 3) chair states motion, members debate and/or amend motion, 4) chair restates and calls for vote, 5) members vote on motion, 6) chair states results of vote, 7) whether motion passes or fails and what happens next as a result of the vote, and 8) chair states next item of business. He said that sequence would help keep the main motion in front of the council and keep it clear. He recalled there have been times when there has been difficulty stating a precise motion. He agreed with allowing a councilmember time to formulate a clear motion so that motions were more concise. Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes May 20, 2022 Page 9 Councilmember Buckshnis commented she has been through a lot of different councils and a lot of different meetings. She agreed with Councilmember Tibbott’s comments and suggested councilmembers take Mr. Taraday up on his offer to help them draft motions. She cautioned some councilmembers think on their feet and have been around long enough that motions occur while the meeting is underway, especially during the budget process. She liked the idea of a concise process, commenting in the last couple years emotions often make motions difficult to follow. Councilmember Buckshnis said the major change she would like to see is a change from verbatim minutes which have been part of Edmonds’ history. There has been a lot of negativity in the last few years, calling for councilmembers to resign, a lot of unkind comments. Although most know why things are being said, in 10 years it may look really bad and there is a lot of stuff that does not matter. She recognized there may be public input about not including public comments in the minutes. She encouraged councilmembers to reach out to Ms. Macfarlane with any questions. Council President Olson commented the council may need time to sit with and think about those concepts since it is something the council has done for a long time and it would be a big deviation. Not having verbatim minutes may encourage people to provide written comments which do not require staff time. She agreed there was a lot to think about in that regard. She recalled the motion to give a councilmember time to craft concise motion was to rest in place. She referred to the guidance to state things in the affirmative; some, including herself, have a lifelong habit of using negatives in their communications and it takes a conscious effort not to do that. She reemphasized that point in the context of motions and communications. It may take an extra moment to rest in place to do that. Council President Olson thanked everyone who attended the training, expressing disappointment that the full deck was not present. She hoped everyone would take the time to study the handouts and watch the training in full so they would have the value of today’s training. 7. ADJOURN With no further business, the council meeting was adjourned at 1:42 p.m.