2024-04-16 Council Special Minutes
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
April 16, 2024
Page 1
EDMONDS CITY COUNCIL MEETING
APPROVED MINUTES
April 16, 2024
ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT
Mike Rosen, Mayor
Vivian Olson, Council President
Chris Eck, Councilmember
Will Chen, Councilmember
Neil Tibbott, Councilmember
Michelle Dotsch, Councilmember
Susan Paine, Councilmember
Jenna Nand, Councilmember
STAFF PRESENT
Scott Passey, City Clerk
Jerrie Bevington, Camera Operator
1. CALL TO ORDER
The Edmonds City Council special meeting was called to order at 5:59 pm by Mayor Rosen in the Council
Chambers, 250 5th Avenue North, Edmonds, and virtually.
2. INTERVIEW CANDIDATES FOR APPOINTMENT TO CITY BOARD OR COMMISSION
1. INTERVIEW PB CANDIDATE LEE HANKINS FOR APPOINTMENT
Councilmembers interviewed Lee Hankins for appointment to the planning board (responses in italics).
Mayor Rosen invited Mr. Hankin to tell the council about himself. We relocated to Edmonds 15 months
ago from Portland, Oregon and like it here a lot better. I have a unique background: military, business and
consulting. Due to my 33 years in the military, I believe in service and would like to give back. When I saw
the planning board position open, I thought that was something I could certainly do so I submitted my
application, had a good meeting with the mayor, and would like to serve on the planning board.
Councilmember Paine expressed appreciation for his background and thanked him for his service, recalling
a former planning board member, Todd Cloutier, had an identical background and left less than a year ago.
She asked his experience and process for meshing policy and regulatory issues. My background is
interesting because as a commanding officer of a nuclear submarine, tactical planning was an
everyday/hour event. I also bring significant time at the Department of Defense in Washington D.C. where
I worked on strategic issues, such as how to put a plan into action. Being a nuclear officer in the U.S. Navy,
there is no better trained person on the planet to understand regulations. I research thoroughly, I
understand regulations, and I seek ways to implement those policies to ensure they, a) are done, b) make
sense, and c) fit what we’re trying to do. I have a lot of experience doing that from an audit and regulatory
standpoint, taking instructions/guidelines/rules/plans and implementing them into an executable strategy.
That is what I’ve done in the past and look forward to do that with the planning board members in the
future.
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Councilmember Tibbott referred to the planning board’s consideration of regulations related to accessory
dwelling units (ADU) and asked his thoughts on planning their development, and implementing strategies
and policies by the end of the year. I read My Edmonds News daily and have been watching the planning
board proceedings and comments on that topic. It’s not a great thing to dive into the deep end when you
don’t understand how to swim. It is important that I read the regulations and understand what we’re trying
to achieve. I understand growth is a very important part of what the planning board and council is working
on and the planning board has provided the council with options for growth which includes ADUs. I was
thinking about that today; how would that be implemented in my neighborhood, what does that look like,
whether the utility companies were aware and ready to support increased development, is the parking
sufficient, etc. There is a growth initiative and ADUs are part of that; it is important to research and work
together to come up with a plan that works for the city and meets the goals for growth in the future.
Councilmember Nand commented almost every person on the council was a volunteer for one of the City’s
boards, commission, or committees. As a member of the planning board, he will likely confront heated
discussion in the community about growth and density. She asked him to address programs like Housing
for Heros that provide affordable and more moderate means for home equity opportunities for active duty
military, first responders or other civil servant roles who find it difficult to afford housing in the
communities they serve. That is one of the things that interests me the most; how do you bring all the
disparate pieces together and make it equitable for everybody? That is a real challenge. Having gone
through the home buying process in Edmonds myself, I understand that very well; it is not cheap, but it is
a beautiful place to live. I would try to include in discussions watching out for individuals such as veterans
and others who chose to live here, but find it difficult. I’m not sure what that looks like, but having a diverse
community should be a priority. I’ve taken my grandson to the fields across the street a number of times,
it's a happy place with people of all types, colors, walks, etc. I really enjoy living here and would like to
work on that in the future.
Councilmember Eck said she has been on the Snohomish County planning commission and was certain he
would find it rewarding. She honored his experience and was excited about the background he brings to the
planning board. There is a lot of heaving lifting happening at the planning board. With his military
background, she asked what experience he brings to a team of people who do not always see eye to eye and
help break through inevitable disagreements. I ended my military career 11-12 years ago and then went
into business where I was able to run a division of a construction company focused on saving energy. It
was a rude awakening for me, as a captain previously, not being able to say this is the way we’re going to
do things and everybody makes it happen. I learned early on that about the collaborative nature of getting
the best out of everybody and ensuring everyone is part of the team, but also keeping us on track. I’m very
good at keeping the end result in mind. We can talk about this, but at the end of the day, we’re tasked with
doing this. I’m able to wind my way through things in a very collaborative, non-demonstrative way to get
to an end result that everyone’s satisfied with and makes sense for the long haul.
Councilmember Chen said the planning board and the city are in a critical time with the comprehensive
plan and one thing they have in common is they all love Edmonds. He asked whether he felt the centers and
hubs strategy was the right one. I think it is the right way to go. One of most important things we used to
keep in mind in the military was standards; the standards of operations and goals we must meet and
performance below that wasn’t acceptable. When standardizing things to some extent, it is easier to set a
benchmark against which it can be measured; measuring is important to prove to people that stuff is getting
done and things are happening. I think it is the right way to go, but in reading My Edmonds News, not
everyone feels that way. It is a bit of a win-lose situation, but I think it is the right way to go for now. As I
learn more in the future, I hope to understand it better and be able to participate in a way that achieves
that goal.
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April 16, 2024
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Councilmember Dotsch said one of the things that tends to happen is one size fits all approaches from the
state as well as within the City. Areas of Edmonds are unique and land use is a big factor the City is planning
for. Being newer to Edmonds, she asked how he learned about the different areas of Edmonds. When I first
moved to Edmonds, I found the Facebook group My Edmonds Neighbors which is a tremendous resource
regarding the neighborhood. I have a hunting dog and hunt birds in the fall. I needed an unconfined place
to run my dog and from that site, I learned about Edmonds Church of God on 220th which has a large area
in the back. There is a wealth of knowledge in that group and I’ve met a lot of people in the community. I
live off 76th in Perrinville and am routinely at the waterfront with my dog. I love all the areas of Edmonds
and have met a number of people who live in Esperance and other areas. Today when I was walking my
dog, I was thinking about how narrow the walkway is on 76th and assume there are areas in Edmonds that
do not have sidewalks which brings up the idea of how to make the city equitable and safe.
Mayor Rosen advised approval of candidates is on Consent Agenda during the regular meeting.
2. INTERVIEW ESCC CANDIDATE DR. KAREN REID FOR APPOINTMENT
Councilmembers interviewed Dr. Karen Reid for appointment to the sister city commission (responses in
italics).
Mayor Rosen invited Dr. Reid to tell the council about herself. I am a retired educator, working with
preschool to college students for 40 years. My passion has always been to enhance the lives of children and
families. In my 40 years as an educator, I also worked with central office staff and the Association of
Washington School Principals. My husband and I both appreciate Japanese culture. We have a lot of
artwork and things in our home, have hosted students from Japan when our children were in high school
and I would love to continue that through the Sister City Commission partnership. As an educator teaching
on both sides of Highway 99 north and south, Edmonds is a diverse place and I’m hopeful the opportunity
to work with students visiting Edmonds and visiting Hekinan will encourage kids throughout the city.
Councilmember Nand asked about increasing diversity and outreach for young people in Edmonds. I have
a lot to learn about the city’s outreach, but it seems like it would be important to get the message out to
schools, middle and high schools particularly. I would also like to explore opportunities for scholarships.
Council President Olson thanked Dr. Reid for applying, commenting her enthusiasm for youth and
international travel is a perfect confluence and will be a great addition to the SCC.
Councilmember Paine recognized Dr. Reid’s wealth of talent, commenting she will find many like-minded
commissioners interested in incorporating youth in all they do and her background and love of Japanese
culture will be a perfect fit for the SCC. She asked if there were other initiative she was interested in working
on. I understand there is also an adult exchange. I’m interested in sharing the culture. I don’t know a lot
about what’s happened in the past, but allowing the adult community to learn what young people are doing
would be helpful. My goal in life is building bridges and to help build understanding; when we know more
about people, we tend to respect each other more.
Councilmember Chen said he was hosted by a family in Iowa when he came to the United States when he
was 24 years old so he knows the big heart it takes to host an international student. He thanked her for
hosting international students and for applying for the SCC.
Mayor Rosen advised approval of candidates is on Consent Agenda during the regular meeting.
3. INTERVIEW PB CANDIDATE STEVEN LI FOR APPOINTMENT
Councilmembers interviewed Steven Li for appointment to the planning board (responses in italics).
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Mayor Rosen invited Mr. Li to tell the council about himself. I have been the executive director of Habitat
for Humanity of Snohomish County for three years. My education and background are in architecture; I
worked as a licensed architect for several years as well as in the real estate construction industry. My
background is in housing and spaces which is why the position on the planning board interested me. What
drew me to Habitat and the nonprofit, in many of my previous roles, I was serving individuals, either
homebuyers or people constructing or remodeling homes and I missed thinking about communities and
how to strengthen communities through places, spaces and buildings which is both exciting and extremely
challenging. I have been in Edmonds approximately six years and have lived in a number of places from
the west coast to the east coast and experienced a lot of different communities from larger cities to smaller
towns. There are a lot of similarities between sizes and scales, but the end of the day it is about ensuring
there are communities that love their places and are willing to work together.
Councilmember Eck commented on his unique skills of architecture and human services as well as his
experience with Habitat for Humanities. She asked with that unique mix of executive leadership,
architecture and nonprofit, what unique perspective he will bring to the planning board. In my role as the
executive of a nonprofit, every day is filled with many priorities and very limited resources. I’m always
trying to find the holistic picture of what is important now and tomorrow and what factors need to be
considered to prioritize what we can do with the resources we have. I do that day to day, but it is not just
about Humanity as an organization, but representing the community and what the community needs the
most, and serving as a bridge between the community and our organization and what we can do with the
resources we have contrasted with what is required and wanted of Habitat. I haven’t figured out all the
answers, but in that struggle I’ve learned the answers aren’t always easy and we need to understand the
bigger picture before tackling the minute details that often get lost.
Councilmember Paine explained the planning board reviews a lot of regulations and policies before they
reach the council, considering community input and board members’ individual experience. She asked what
in his background will help him address that, his experience in in doing that, and what was he looking
forward to doing on the planning board. I asked Mayor Rosen what the planning board does. There is some
flux in what the board does although a lot of their focus in the coming year will be regarding the
comprehensive plan which will be very important and integral to development over the coming years. One
of the things I bring from Habitat’s mission and the way they way operate is most people know the
organization as builders/developers of affordable housing, but I like to tell people we view housing as both
a product and a process. Habitat brings people together to build homes; participating in the process and
building community is almost as important. I see the comprehensive plan similarly; it will be a big stack of
papers with a lot of policies and recommendations for moving the city forward, but I’m excited to see how
that process can be used to facilitate the right conversations. Everyone has very strong opinions about what
they want the city to be and a lot of people want the same things, but the minutia and technicalities look
different. The comprehensive plan process and conversation can be used to bridge the gap.
Councilmember Nand recognized the unique perspective he brings to the planning board. The council talks
about zoning a lot; she is passionate about providing affordable, equity opportunities for middle and
working class neighbors to have stability and build intergenerational wealth for their families in a very high
value real estate community like Edmonds. She is interested in things like residents owned manufactured
housing communities, more condominiumization, DADUs/ADUs, etc. She asked about his ideas for
building home equity opportunities for middle and working class community members. My answer would
be to do all those things. If we want equity and diversity in Edmonds, we need diversity in housing types.
Zoning historically over the last 100 years has been restricted to single family which is why Edmonds and
other nearby cities look the same. Not all families have three kid and two parents that live in a four bed/three
bath home. There needs to be single family studios as well as single family homes, cooperative housing, co-
ownership, and ADUs. The conversation around how HB 1337 is implemented is important as well as HB
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1110 related to middle housing. There needs to be housing between single family and large multifamily.
When I talk to people about affordable housing, people only see one thing, large, towering multifamily
housing that looks like public housing and brings with it the stigma of whatever public housing was over
the last 60-70 years. They don’t know that affordable housing can look like the house next door, like an
ADU, a duplex, or a housing type we haven’t seen yet. We need to provide more flexibility and adaptability
in zoning and land use codes so people can be creative based on what people need. There are a lot of
restrictions in the code that prevent that. I would like to see a conversation about how we can allow more
flexibility and creativity in our zoning.
Councilmember Chen explained the comprehensive plan focuses on the next 20 years of planning. To meet
those growth targets, the City is looking at a hubs and centers strategy. He asked if he was familiar with
that and did he think it was the right strategy. It is going in the right direction, creating more variability in
the density in different places. There may still be some restrictiveness in determining this street needs to be
X height or X stories. I know cursory about the concept, but not how it will be executed in different
neighborhoods. Every neighborhood’s personality, context and requirements are different. I would like to
see a certain amount of adaptability of the plan and code to allow each neighborhood to grow more
organically based on what the residents need. I don’t know enough details to provide a concrete answer.
Councilmember Dotsch referred to his comment about resources and asked about the top three resources in
Edmonds that he valued and one resource Edmonds was lacking. Number 1 resource is the people; everyone
is here because we love the city and care about the community. One of the reasons my family moved to
Edmonds was the strong community identity and fabric. The next resource is the current infrastructure.
Edmonds is one of the older cities in Snohomish County so it has the infrastructure that supports a certain
urban development mixed with other amenities such as Puget Sound, the ferry, adjacency to other places,
etc. There are also a lot of unique and established neighborhoods in Edmonds, something that does not
exist in the rest of Snohomish County or even in parts of Seattle, that have an identity and cohesion that
could be built on. The resource everyone needs more of is money. With fluctuations in the economy and
Covid, Edmonds and other jurisdictions are in flux. That is a challenge, but also creates an opportunity to
discuss priorities.
Mayor Rosen advised approval of candidates is on Consent Agenda during the regular meeting.
4. INTERVIEW ADB CANDIDATE TODD STINE FOR APPOINTMENT
Councilmembers interviewed Todd Stine for appointment to the Architectural Design Board (responses in
italics).
Mayor Rosen invited Mr. Stine to tell the council about himself. I am a licensed architect, have been
practicing for over 35 years and am the managing partner of ZGF Architects’ Seattle office which has
about 160 people and does primarily commercial institutional products including Seattle Children’s
Hospital, Fred Hutch Cancer Center, a lot of work for Microsoft including five buildings in their new
expansion, new Expedia headquarters in Interbay and a lot of smaller scale projects such as the north clinic
for Seattle Children near Providence Everett, and the newer tower at Providence Everett Hospital. I’ve
been a resident of Edmonds for about 12 years; my wife grew up in Edmonds. I’ve grown to love Edmonds
and wish we’d moved here sooner from Seattle. It is time for me to give back to the city. In my career I’ve
often been on the applicant side of design review boards in Seattle, Bellevue and other jurisdictions so I’m
familiar with the process and understand the give and take and compromise that needs to be found to make
projects successful and to meet the community’s needs as well as the owner’s return on investment. I’m
interested in being on the other side of the table and contribute to Edmonds.
Councilmember Paine thanked him for his contributions to the way Seattle looks. The landscape has
changed and design review boards are limited in what they are able to do. She asked his thoughts about
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how that will look when applied in Edmonds, acknowledging the projects in Edmonds will likely not be as
large as the ones he has worked on. Making sure whatever is proposed fits into the place it is going, that it
feels part of its immediate context. Downtown has a lovely scale, the waterfront has its own experience, SR
104 as a primary entrance needs some love to feel to more welcoming and feel like a gracious entry, and
Highway 99 is a whole different ball of wax. There need to be different solutions for each of those that
adjusts to the immediate context in terms of scale, relationship to the street and becoming a more pedestrian
friendly city, particularly on SR-104 and Highway 99.
Councilmember Nand commented for laypeople the work of the ADB is impenetrable, but very important
as it relates to zoning, permitting and building. She was in Orlando, Florida, recently where there are 3-4
story multifamily buildings with beautiful Spanish influence. If that type of building was more common in
the Pacific NW, neighbors would be less annoyed when multifamily is proposed in their previously single
family zoned neighborhood. The state mandates related to objective design standards limiting the ability to
make a building look pretty and better integrate in a neighborhood. She asked his perspective on what
standards the City should adopt for integrating multifamily, ADU, DADU and other housing into the
community. There is a building on SR-104 has its back to SR-104 with a big retaining wall and fence. I
understand from return on investment why the developer wanted to do that, but as a presence on the street
and someone driving into the city, it doesn’t look good. Housing is critical to making the city more equitable
and to provide opportunity for intergenerational wealth. There needs to be ways to encourage more housing
in ways that create an inviting environment, not just money-generating tool for the owner, but creating
community. How do we create spaces and buildings that are backdrops to creating good communities.
Councilmember Dotsch commented architecture can create a streetscape of interest and beauty if done
thoughtfully. She asked him two things in architecture that bring this to reality. Certainly scale is incredibly
important both in terms of how it relates to the context such as buildings on either side, the street width,
the scale of the landscaping and most importantly to the scale of people. Having openness, whether that is
windows or a colonnade or other way that makes it feel like it is penetrable because when an impenetrable
fortress or wall is created, particularly on the streetscape, that defeats what we hope for the city.
Mayor Rosen advised approval of candidates is on Consent Agenda during the regular meeting.
5. INTERVIEW EAC CANDIDATE BETH HENKES FOR APPOINTMENT
Councilmembers interviewed Beth Henkes for appointment to the Edmonds art commission (responses in
italics).
Mayor Rosen invited Ms. Henkes to tell the council about herself. I come from a long and storied arts past.
My first career was a production stage manager in professional theater for 10 years in New York City and
regionally. While in New York, I also worked in casting for public theater, aka Shakespear in the Park, and
worked in a talent agency. I was the Assistant Manager at Shakespeare and Company Booksellers which
at the time was in the West Village near NYU. When I left New York at the behest of my now husband whose
aunt lived in Sequim, the only thing I knew how to do was books. We met in a bookstore in the mid-west
and Opened Third Place Books and then both went to the University Bookstore in Bellevue as the buyer
and manager for several years. My book career was about 15 years long. I also spent about four years at
a small independent publisher in Bellevue rooted in photography and conservation. I started a division
there, partnering with conservation organizations all over the U.S. I also have the Idea Hound where I do
a lot of process and event project work and have done several hundred events as well as a lot of marketing.
Councilmember Nand was excited about her experience in creative oriented businesses, something
Edmonds’ arts district is known for. There are several aspects that would be a good fit for her such as
marketing the arts corridor, arts walk and events like the free summer concert series. Public art helps
highlight the cultural identities of the various neighborhood business districts such as Highway 99 which
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has the International District and a civil rights history that art could explain to future generations. She asked
where her passion was as a member of the arts commission. Because I have such a vast background, I am
usually interested in everything. If I had to choose a word, collaboration has always been my thing. I am
big on taking solo factions that do not understand they can work together and introducing them to each
other. That is something I’ve done my entire life personally as well as in the business world. When I moved
to Edmonds 10 years ago, I did not understand how sprawling Edmonds is; Edmonds has large boundaries
and it is important to incorporate all areas; Edmonds is not just the bowl.
Council President Olson commented it seemed like she would have been eligible for any seat on the Arts
Commission which will give her a unique opportunity to get the different areas working together like she
has done in other places.
Councilmember Eck commented her skills and talents are exciting. She asked about her ideas for
intergenerational art and community to engage different age groups. As we talk about diversity, there are
so many pieces to diversity and age is a big one. I’ve encountered that in my working life and know as you
get older, you start to get ignored, but that also happens at the opposite end of the spectrum and needs to
be incorporate into the arts. I’d love to see theater and music groups, no matter how small, start kid
programs and do things to invite the community in. There are a couple local businesses starting to do that
such as reviving story hour at the book store, and No Talent Art Night at Art Spot which incorporates many
aspects of diversity. By pulling in diverse groups, we will be able to capture a different demographic.
Mayor Rosen during regular meeting approval of candidates is on Consent Agenda.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further business, the special council meeting was adjourned at 6:55 pm.