2024-04-18 Council Special Minutes
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
April 18, 2024
Page 1
EDMONDS CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING/TOWN HALL
APPROVED MINUTES
April 18, 2024
ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT
Vivian Olson, Council President
Chris Eck, Councilmember
Will Chen, Councilmember
Michelle Dotsch, Councilmember
Susan Paine, Councilmember
Jenna Nand, Councilmember
ELECTED OFFICIALS ABSENT
Neil Tibbott, Councilmember
STAFF PRESENT
Beckie Peterson, Council Executive Assistant
Dave Rohde, Tech Support
Scott Passey, City Clerk
Jerrie Bevington, Camera Operator
1. CALL TO ORDER
The Edmonds City Council meeting was called to order at 6:59 pm by Council President Olson in the Public
Works & Utilities Lunch Room, 7110 210th Street SW, Edmonds, and virtually.
2. INTRODUCTIONS/APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Council President Olson commented councilmembers are residents of Edmonds first and foremost and
come in the spirit of community to listen to the public, get ideas and work together to build the community.
This town hall represents the council’s commitment expressed during the retreat to elevate and do even
better on community engagement than has been done in the past. It was difficult to find a date that worked
for the entire council. Originally only four councilmembers indicated they could attend tonight but some
were able to change their plans and attend. She introduced councilmembers, advising Councilmember
Tibbott was unable to attend tonight as he was representing the City at Snohomish County Cities tonight.
She acknowledged Mayor Rosen in the audience. She thanked Council Executive Assistant Beckie
Peterson, City Clerk Scott Passey, Tech Support Dave Rohde, Facilities Receptionist Jerrie Bevington and
Minute Taker Jeannie Dines.
Council President Olson described the location of restrooms, water fountain and emergency exits. She
reviewed the format for tonight’s program, five audience questions followed by replies from three
councilmembers, five questions from virtual attendees and replies from three councilmembers, five
questions submitted in advance and replies from three councilmembers and then begin again with questions
from audience, etc. Councilmembers may respond to questions asked during that round or to pervious
questions.
It was the consensus of the council to approve the agenda.
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April 18, 2024
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3. COMMUNITY DIALOGUE
Robin Wright, Edmonds, thanked the council for providing this format. She has spoken at city council,
but that is just one way communication with no feedback. She asked if thought had been given to how the
city could better utilize volunteers. Some of groups she volunteers with want to help such as planting bulbs
on Main Street or pulling weeds in Yost Park, but are not able to. She asked if there was a way to leverage
volunteers so they can help out more.
With no further questions from audience members, Council President Olson relayed a town hall question
submitted in advance by Ron Wambolt: Our population has only grown by 3,000 in the last 20 years and
is currently slightly below what it was in 2020. Has anyone in our city learned what assumptions were used
to determine the figure of 13,000? Clearly that figure MUST BE CHALLENGED before the zoning in our
city is screwed up. My belief is that the figure is a target and not a projection, and has been chosen to justify
the zoning changes that enable the proposed increase in housing. There are many of us looking for a rational
explanation of this 13,000 figure.
With regard to utilizing volunteers better, Councilmember Eck recommended the administration take a hard
look at that because a lot of people love to garden and their skills could be applied to helping make the City
more beautiful. With regard to what the council can do in the boards and commissions they are liaisons to,
she wonders at times if those volunteers are being as fully utilized as they could be or in some cases, she
worries they are being over-utilized.
With regard to Mr. Wambolt’s question whether the City has confirmed the growth targets, her
understanding was the state did their study and Snohomish County and all the cities were involved when
the targets were created and agreed to. Edmonds was given its piece of the growth allotment that was
provided to Snohomish County. With regard to whether it is the right number, she did not have the formula
in front of her, it is the growth target that Snohomish County and the cities agreed to. With regard to whether
the City can push back, she said the City could absolutely try and those conversations have been occurring
by the administration and Snohomish County. If the City does not complete its plan, there is the risk the
City would lose its ability to control how the growth is applied within the City’s boundaries. If the City
does not comply, it was her understanding the state can tell the City how to allocate the growth which no
one wants to happen. It is important to continue working collaboratively with Snohomish County, ask
questions, and keep moving forward in order to retain control of the City’s growth plan.
Councilmember Chen thanked everyone for sacrificing their beautiful evening to be here which means they
care. Edmonds has awesome, dedicated volunteers who care about the City and donate their time, expertise
and knowledge to help the City become the place everyone loves. It is critical that the City utilize its
volunteers. With regard to how to better tap into those resources, there are many nonprofits that can offer
assistance with gardening, childcare, the environment, etc. In the past the council discussed funding a
volunteer coordinator to work with nonprofits and other groups. Mayor Rosen is supportive of volunteers
and mentioned it during his campaign. He has been in office approximately 90 days and he expected there
will be a lot of good plans coming from the administration’s efforts.
With regard to the 13,000 population growth, Councilmember Chen agreed with Councilmember Eck, it is
a top down assignment approach; the state did a study to develop statewide growth predications, assigned
a growth amount to Snohomish County which then trickles down to each community. Edmonds was
assigned 13,000 population increase during that process. There will be adjustments in the future via the
comprehensive plan; it is wise for the City to develop a plan to accommodate that growth. The
administration is working with Snohomish County and the state to refine a more realistic number.
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With regard to volunteers, Councilmember Dotsch said that is one Edmonds’ gifts, people are passionate
about the community and want to help. She relayed her thoughts such as advertising opportunities for
volunteers such as the Earth Day events this Saturday at Bracketts North and Marina Beach. If people don’t
know about those events, the City likely needs to do a better job advertising them such as a quarterly
Facebook post or information on the website regarding volunteer opportunities, providing links to
nonprofits, etc. Community members want to contribute and especially now when some areas may not
receive as much funding, there may be opportunities for volunteers to fill the gap.
With regard to the City’s growth target, Councilmember Dotsch relayed she took a class today through
Department of Commerce regarding GMA. The person conducting the class commented planning assumes
1.44 people/unit which is less than in the past; people don’t need extra bedrooms, they need smaller lots
and smaller homes. She recalled discussions by the housing commission about putting two houses on one
lot that they are somehow half the price which they learned was not the case. She recalled an architect on
the housing commission said each unit has a kitchen and bathroom, the two most expensive things to build;
adding walls for bedrooms is not as expensive. As many people are in the sandwich generation, with
children and aging parents, she wondered if the thought process regarding the number of people/unit was
accurate. She assumed that is how the number of units and population got so high. Edmonds’s growth in
the past has been in the single digits and is now projected to grow very fast in the next 20 years. She
summarized the City has to be very holistic in its planning because everything that is done relates to
something else.
Lynn Tressler said she was present at an Edmonds city council meeting in September 2023 where the
council voted unanimously to work with Lynnwood and Snohomish County to include the homes in their
Meadowdale neighborhood in Edmonds’ MUGA instead of Lynnwood’s. She was involved with a process
where the city council voted in 2007 to annex their neighborhood after a petition was circulated and
residents overwhelmingly wanted to be part of Edmonds instead of Lynnwood. The neighborhood has
always had Edmonds mailing addresses; her family moved into their home in 1977. Lynnwood city council
voted unanimously to work with Edmonds to start the process. Apparently there was an introductory
meeting with both cities to start the process, but there hasn’t been an update since the November 2023
meeting. She asked whether progress was being made on this possible annexation.
Claudine [no last name given] inquired about the new building code from the state and how that will affect
the Five Corners area and the Highway 99 corridor. As a lifetime resident of Edmonds, she did not want to
see Edmonds turn into Lynnwood or Bellevue. Part of Edmonds’ charm is the unique waterfront, small city,
welcoming, family-friendly place. She was concerned that the new zoning that would add five stories would
change Five Corners. She recognized the importance of change, but did not think it would change Five
Corners for the better.
With regard to the state housing density mandates, Councilmember Paine explained when the council voted
to define the scope of the environmental study, it was to make it as broad as possible to get information
through the EIS for the council to make decisions later this year. The height evaluated in the EIS is up to 5
stories with incentives, but that does not mean it is set in code, it is the basis for information the council
will get to make decisions for the comprehensive plan update. She acknowledged that sounds like a lot, but
the council needs the information via the EIS to make informed decisions regarding how to proceed. She
acknowledged it may sound scary because for decades Edmonds has been human scale, manageable,
neighborhood focused and appreciated the beauty of neighborhoods. She summarized the growth targets
are a mandate from the state legislature and there are not very many options.
With regard to volunteer opportunities, Councilmember Paine referred to an email she received about
volunteer opportunities for people moving to Edmonds. She listed several volunteer opportunities including
the waterfront dog park, the dive park, Edmonds Marsh, Bird Fest, several art groups, Cascadia Museum,
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April 18, 2024
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climate action groups, Edmonds Bicycle Advocacy Group, Girls on the Run of Snohomish County,
Edmonds Floretum Club, Edmonds Chamber, Heros Café, churches with community activism groups,
Edmonds Center for the Arts, Multicultural Association of Edmonds, etc. For those with questions, passion,
and ideas, she encouraged them to find places to plug in because Edmonds is built on its volunteers.
Councilmember Nand commented with local government, the struggle is to get new people involved and
engaged so she was excited by the number of questions being asked and especially by new people. As other
councilmembers have responded to questions, she will respond to some of the questions provided in
advance. Everyone on council started as a volunteer; she contacted then-Mayor Earling encouraging him to
opt Edmonds into the Paris Accord. Then Mayor-Earling met with her and put her on the Mayor’s Climate
Protection Committee. For those with a passion, she encouraged them to contact Mayor Rosen who will
probably assign them to a City board, committee or commission. With regard to including the Meadowdale
neighborhood in Edmonds’ MUGA, she relayed Shoreline Councilmember Cheryl Lee told her Shoreline
incorporated because they were terrified of being swallowed up by Seattle. She referred Ms. Tressler to
Mayor Rosen regarding the timeline for proceeding with including their neighborhood into Edmonds’
MUGA. She thanked Ms. Tressler for her passion and vision for their neighborhood, recognizing it takes a
lot of work to annex or be included into another city’s MUGA.
With regard to Erica Miner’s written question about zoning in Five Corners, Councilmember Nand said
zone capacity is not market force. The market will determine what gets built on each privately owned parcel.
It is very expensive to build and the area is in an economic downturn. The state, via Snohomish County,
assigned Edmonds 13,000 additional people, there were 4,100 units allocated to Highway 99 in the last
comprehensive plan update that were never built. The City is responsible for providing the zone capacity if
someone wants to build as well as regulations regarding massing, shadowing, building heights, impact to
the neighborhood, etc. It is the market’s job to determine whether it is economically feasible to build or not.
With regard to Claudine’s question about building codes and impacts to the bowl and Highway 99,
Councilmember Eck said the council has heard loudly and clearly from residents on Highway 99 that they
do not want to continue accommodating the impacts of growth and taller buildings. No one wants to change
the look of downtown and the waterfront. The intent of the EIS is to look broadly to see how to spread the
impact so all the growth is not in the bowl or on Highway 99. Once everything is established, the growth
will be very gradual, it will not occur overnight. With regard to ADUs, duplexes, etc., it will be very
methodical and not everyone in Edmonds will sell their property, partake in the new zoning or build an
ADU. Spreading the growth out minimizes impacts to the bowl and Highway 99.
With regard to zoning at Five Corners, Councilmember Eck assured that is being thoroughly explored in
the EIS. Once the council has all that information, they will take another look because nothing is set in
stone. In the meantime, the council wants to hear from the public throughout the City. She applauded those
spending their evening with the council tonight, either in person or via Zoom, noting this process is critical.
With regard to the boundary change to the UGA, Council President Olson explained according to that
boundary, that neighborhood, although it has an Edmonds address, was in Lynnwood’s UGA so without a
change in the boundary, that neighborhood would be annexed into Lynnwood. Lynnwood and Edmonds
are on board with considering that change. She called Snohomish County in the last 1-2 weeks and learned
they were waiting for Lynnwood and Edmonds to follow up with them. Mayor Rosen indicated he would
check with planning & development. The administration is aware the comprehensive plan process is a
window of opportunity to change the boundary.
Darrol Haug, Edmonds, a 50 year resident of Edmonds, an Economic Development Commission (EDC)
member but speaking as a citizen, recalled when the EDC made their presentation to council, there were
remarks from council about the EDC looking at the city’s existing buildings, some need repair or could be
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April 18, 2024
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used for other purposes. He asked for a further explanation regarding that direction. Next, he recognized
maintenance of sidewalks was the responsibility of the adjacent property owner; however, the city has
worked on sidewalks marked with trip hazards. He suggested the council clarify whether the city will repair
trip hazards on existing sidewalks.
Karen Barnes, Edmonds, said she was passionate around the zoning issue, but was late to party and was
trying to get caught up. She asked who was responsible for assessing the capacity of the infrastructure such
as wastewater, electricity, etc., to accommodate the growth target and whether that was done at the local or
state level. She asked about the best resources for a resident to get up to speed.
Joe Scordino, Edmonds, observed a DEIS is underway to look at the environmental consequences of the
growth alternatives. He asked what level and what type of environment consequences would be too great
and/or intolerable to undertake this many units. He has heard people say it’s not appropriate to put more
density on Highway 99. He asked if that was an environmental consequence that would be used in other
areas, the people in the area don’t want more development, or would the council base it on facts?
With regard to Mr. Haug’s question about the City’s existing buildings, Councilmember Chen said there is
a tremendous opportunity to consider how to better utilize the City’s existing buildings and look at the
City’s needs. The City extends from the waterfront on the west to Highway 99 and Lake Ballinger on the
east, Edmonds no longer ends at 9th Avenue. A lot of the City’s infrastructure is centrally located in the
downtown/waterfront/bowl area such as city hall, public safety complex, wastewater treatment plant, etc.
With regard to public safety, 80% of the crime happens on the eastside of Edmonds along Highway 99, but
the City’s dedicated, hardworking police are situated in the bowl. It is time to take a holistic approach to
considering reallocating City resources to meet the needs which is part of the strategy of using existing
buildings. Considering the City’s current financial position, there may be opportunities but it will take a lot
of work and is likely something Mayor Rosen is already thinking about.
With regard to sidewalks, Councilmember Chen said sidewalks are very expensive. There are existing
sidewalks that need repair as well as areas that do not have sidewalks. In his personal opinion, taking care
of sidewalks requires a public/private partnership. The sidewalk is the responsibility of the adjacent
property owner, but the City can coordinate a program such as applying for state or federal funding.
With regard to zoning, Councilmember Dotsch assured it wasn’t too late; the zoning has not been changed.
Things are going to be happening so she encouraged residents to stay engaged. With regard to the bookends
for the EIS, in her opinion, the circles are small, medium and large and she supports broadening the circles.
She worried if the DEIS says the tiny, high traffic, small lot circles such as the new north Firdale and north
bowl cannot be developed, growth in the other circles will increase. Spreading the growth out further would
have been more conductive to choices other than just the circles. She lives near Five Corners where the
community had been very invested and vocal.
Councilmember Dotsch continued, if property owners can build up to five stories, that becomes highest and
best use. She supports lower impacts in those areas as well as on the environment. Five Corners is above
Shell Creek whether a lot of destruction has already occurred due to high water events. She was unsure how
creating more impervious surfaces helped the environment. She referred to the question about what it would
take to increase the capacity of the City’s infrastructure, commenting the WWTP is already at capacity in
the winter when there are huge events, the treatment plant is not in compliance with Ecology, and
Mountlake Terrace is increasing their flows to the City’s treatment plan. It is important to take a more
holistic view and being intentional about asking for detailed information to assist the council in making
decisions.
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With regard to Mr. Haug’s question about sidewalks, Councilmember Paine suggested going online to the
Find It Fix It app on the City’s website to report a broken sidewalk that needs attention, a downed stop sign,
etc. With regard to the assessment of City owned buildings, she said that will be an interesting analysis.
She encouraged the EDC to look at the study done by McKinstry that has been updated. With regard to Ms.
Barnes’ question regarding the best resources, she suggested there be a resource section on the
comprehensive plan page so everyone has access to that information. The Department of Commerce’s
website has a lot of information regarding the GMA; the GMA is very complicated and deals with housing
and transportation. Beginning next year, the City’s comprehensive plan will need to address sustainability
Joe Nolan, Edmonds, referred to the dilemma the city is facing with regard to a change in fire service. He
read the Fitch & Associates’ presentation, but the following issue was not specifically addressed although
it is of significant interest to Edmonds’ residents, property owners specifically. Any decision the council
makes regarding the future of fire and EMS should consider the protection class change that would occur
for properties in Edmonds. Most Edmonds’ addresses are currently Protection Class 3. Factors such as road
miles to the nearest responding fire station, etc. can affect the rating. Any significant degradation in
protection class would likely result in a significant increase in homeowner and commercial insurance
premiums. There are a number of areas in Western Washington that have undergone this rating change due
to decommissioning of a fire station and the impact to property owners was substantial. He did not see a
change in the protection class or its impact on property owners’ insurance addressed in Fitch’s presentation.
He hoped the city council factored that potential premium impact in their decision.
Chris McGuffin, a resident on the outskirts of Edmonds, asked if the council had considered hiring a third
party to analyze what areas are the most revenue positive for the city and using that data in combination
with other data to determine the best lots to upzone beyond the ADU, duplex, etc. mandate placed by the
state. He suggested bringing in Urban3 to give the city a financial breakdown to provide a better idea of
how to comply with the state mandate. The financial health of the city should be one of the key points of
consideration when thinking about growth.
Sam [no last name given] asked, with regard to the growth alternatives, did the council have plans to add
additional check-ins with the city planners and planning board to review the comprehensive plan going
forward. He referred to the timeline in the April 9 presentation which indicated the EIS would be ready for
review in late July and a meeting scheduled to review it. The next check-in is in October at which point the
council would vote on a preferred alternative which would include zoning and building heights for specific
neighborhoods. There was a lot of information to unpack in the two hour meeting on April 9 and the council
also voted at that meeting. He inquired if the council was interested in having a monthly check-in with
planning staff and the planning board regarding how the preferred alternative is taking shape. Next, he
asked about the impact increased density in Five Corners will have on Yost Park. It seems stormwater
runoff is already taking a toll on Shell Creek which runs through Yost Park and into Puget Sound. He asked
if that aspect would be studied in the EIS.
With regard to the question about fire service and the potential protection class change and impact on
homeowner/commercial insurance, Councilmember Nand explained deciding the level of service the City
wants to fund is what the council has been faced with for the two years. If the City annexes into the RFA,
which she has publicly stated multiple times is her hope, the amount of property taxes that property owners
pay will increase, but the level of service should not change so insurance premiums should not change as
the responsiveness of fire and EMS to their property would not change. If the council or voters decide they
do not want to annex into the RFA, the City could try to negotiate with Shoreline, but not only would
Shoreline’s fire commission have to sign an interlocal agreement with Edmonds, the King County Council
would have to agree to take Edmonds into the special district with Shoreline. King County residents pay
more property taxes than residents of Snohomish County and they are very unlikely to subsidize Edmonds’
fire service so in her mind, that was an academic option but not likely to happen.
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Councilmember Nand continued, the same with the setting up its own fire department which she feared
would result in a loss of service and result in a change in the premium property owners are paying, especially
for commercial. Property owners will some experience pain in their pocketbook when the City is forced to
make a change in the fire service as a result of the RFA pulling Edmonds’ contract. She hoped the council
would put annexation into the RFA to the voters and that the voters would agree to annex into the RFA.
The RFA was originally created to reduce costs by consolidating the administrative burden. In every other
city in the area that has faced the question of annexation, voters have decided they are better off annexing
into the RFA. She was hopeful that could occur before the end of the contract at the end of 2025.
With regard to Mr. McGuffin question about a third party assessing the most revenue positive areas of
Edmonds to upzone, Councilmember Nand said there are established business districts that tend to be more
lucrative for the City in terms of the amount of tax generated. People living in or proximate to those areas
are also experiencing more traffic, more construction and often less investment by the City in their
neighborhoods which is why the council wants to spread the density around.
Regarding Mr. Nolan’s question about fire protection classification, Councilmember Eck said she was not
in favor of an option that would increase rates and decrease fire/EMS response time. With regard to Mr.
McGuffin’s question, the City’s economic development staff and the EDC keep a close eye on the highest
revenue generating areas of the City. She acknowledged his point of ensuring increased density did not
jeopardize revenue and spreading the potential growth capacity. With regard to Sam’s question about
adding more check-ins with the planning department, she found that completely reasonable. She suggested
that could be done during updates at committee meetings as well as updates at council.
In regard to Sam’s question about checking in with the planning department on a regular basis before
making a final decision, Councilmember Chen agreed check-ins at committee were appropriate and
suggested having a discussion at council followed by council making a decision in 1-2 weeks to provide
amble time for public comment and thinking through the impacts of the growth alternatives. He suggested
incorporating that into committee and council meetings. With regard to Mr. McGuffin’s question about
hiring a third party to analyze which areas of the City have more revenue generating power and using that
as a basis for growth planning, Councilmember Chen said personally he did not think that was the right
approach. The City needs to look at the environmental impacts on the entire City. In 2017, the Highway 99
corridor was upzoned to business zoning and a 75-foot building height. There are a lot of auto dealerships
on Highway 99 and the majority of the City’s sales tax is generated by Highway 99. Using the methodology
of which area generates the most revenue and adding all the growth there would accelerate the imbalance.
Nate Sugg, Edmonds, assumed some kind of passion brought each councilmember to the council. He asked
for an update on the work that has done related to that passion.
Jon Milkey, Edmonds, said he wished this town hall had been held a few months ago before the
preliminary results for the comprehensive plan so residents could have had more input. In response to his
written question regarding how many of the 9,000+ units would be affordable, one of the city’s senior
planners sent information to him that seemed to indicate no units would be dedicated as affordable housing.
There are units that could be more affordable because they are mid-rise or low-rise or units in areas that
typically cost less. He asked how many units the council anticipated would be affordable. A lot of the units
in the comprehensive plan units are proposed with an assumption they will be affordable. If buildings are
not 4-5+ stories, they may not pencil out for affordability.
In response to Mr. Sugg’s question, Councilmember Dotsch said like many in the audience, she started
attending meetings, got curious and attended more meetings. One of her passions is Edmonds; the reason
she ran for office is the people. Edmonds is so special, her sister couldn’t wait to get out of Edmonds and
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now lives in Switzerland, but loves coming back to Edmonds. One of things she found so interesting was
residents’ passion for community; people come to Edmonds because of the community. When she tells
people she lives in Edmonds, they do not say oh I’m sorry, they say they love Edmonds. She has attended
meetings in many areas of the City and has heard about how special Edmonds is. Another aspect that
attracted her to the council was planning for the future; Edmonds is transitioning, there are strollers
everywhere. For example, her neighbor who was a widower passed away and now a young family of four
moved in.
With regard to Mr. Milkey’s question, at the end of the class on the GMA that she attended today, the
presenter said units will not be affordable. HB 1110 was originally billed as affordability and changed to a
variety of housing. At the class, Department of Commerce basically said realistically affordable housing
will need to be subsidized or done regionally. Originally the thought was that smaller units would
automatically be more affordable, but that is not the case. She referred to the ground breaking for the
community center in Lynnwood, commenting there are opportunities on church properties for affordable
housing that are subsidized by other means.
In response to Mr. Nolan’s question, Councilmember Paine said when the council met with Fitch &
Associates regarding options for fire service, there was discussion about level of service and that
information will be in the report that Fitch has promised to provide by the end of next week. She suggested
asking that a comment about not changing the level of service be added. With regard to Sam’s question
about Yost Park, there are eight watersheds in Edmonds, all of which need special care. Critical area are
out of bounds for growth, but that does not mean there aren’t impacts to the watersheds. The City needs to
ensure areas near creeks and streams are not overloaded. The council can decide whether the standard is
protection at a 50 year or 100 year flood, knowing climate change will increase extreme storm events.
Regarding Mr. Sugg’s question about why she ran for office, Councilmember Paine explained her
background is similar to where others get their experience, community groups, activism, etc. She moved to
Edmonds for the school district and served on the school board for six years because she was unhappy with
the services her children were getting. She found that fascinating and one of the best experiences in her life.
The school board looks at policy, gets to see the complexity of how schools interact with the community,
etc. She recommended residents serve on one of the City’s boards or commissions. Her background is
working in municipal government, courts and in regulatory for the City of Seattle. She has a master’s degree
in public administration and finds serving the community very satisfying. She has never been busier, it is a
lot of fun, always interesting and she gets great perspective from the community.
In response to Mr. Sugg’s question, Councilmember Nand said she got involved in local politics when she
lobbied then-Mayor Earling to pledge to commit to the Paris Accord at the City level because the Trump
administration had backed out and she joined the Mayor’s Climate Protection Committee. When she first
got involved in, she started to understand that although what federal and state governments do might be on
the evening news, what local government does impacts the public’s daily life and they can have a lot of
impact in their own community. She is the only millennial on the council and the only renter which allows
her to provide a different perspective such as regarding housing. As a renter, she chose to live 3 blocks from
her parents because her father is almost 80 and has dementia. She could have moved to New York and made
lots of money, but whenever there were extreme weather events, she would be wondering if her parents
were safe. Because of her more affordable housing option within blocks of her parents, she can walk to
their house. She likes being able to share her lived experience and provide community feedback for
neighbors. The council’s job as local legislators is to use the public’s input to impact the way the City is
run and the way the community develops.
With regard to Mr. Milkey’s question, Councilmember Nand explained HB 1220 requires the City plan for
low income housing to meet GMA. That will be challenging for Edmonds; people are intimidated by terms
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like low income housing because it conjures negative views. It is also housing for college aged people
leaving home for the first to go into the job market who want to stay close to home and have their kids
babysat by their grandparents. Providing flexibility in zoning gives the market an opportunity for multiple
generations to live in Edmonds. She wants to ensure everyone in the community feels represented by the
council.
Council President Olson read written questions submitted by Clinton Wright:
1. Exactly what is “equitable” housing in Edmonds and what will it look like in your view?
2. How are you going to assure that our sewer system and roads (infrastructure) can handle the
increased density that we are being told we must accommodate if a supposed worst case scenario
of people desiring to move here actually occurs?
3. Do you prefer cutting services to citizens as a way to save money or cutting salaries substantially
by a percentage across the board or a combination of those things? In other words, what should the
city administration do to save money and have a balanced budget going forward?
4. What made Plan A and Plan B presented by the administration acceptable and what made the
Dotsch white paper unacceptable in your opinion?
Councilmember Eck referred to Question 1 above, explaining she is fortunate to have a career in nonprofits
and many on her team work in housing. Although not an expert, to her equitable housing is allowing a
variety of housing types. In addition to college students, there are also seniors who want to downsize, but
can’t afford to move out of the house they’ve owned for decades. There needs to be a solution for them to
stay in Edmonds where they have family and friends; maybe an ADU or shared housing would be an option.
There are organizations that will do background checks for people interested in shared housing. She referred
to an article in the Seattle Times about a program in another state where a background-checked college
student shared a home with a senior and helped her with things she could no longer do. There are many
different options that should be available to community members; it is not just college students or a single
mom with kids, housing affordability impacts people of all ages. Micro housing is another potential.
With regard to Question 2 above, Councilmember Eck explained the EIS related to the growth alternatives
is vital and will consider and assess the infrastructure and help the council reach the best answer. Regarding
Question 3, Councilmember Eck said in her job with a large nonprofit, she is responsible for millions of
dollars for programs. Although she recognized government and nonprofit budgets are different, the
principles are the same; look for funding, write grants, work with municipalities and governments to find
program funds, and if those funds runs out, tough choices have to be made such as selling a building, cutting
programs, etc. In her view, cutting staff was usually the last resort as that was dealing with people’s lives.
The staffing ratios in City of Edmonds compared to surrounding cities are very lean. She was not adverse
to cutting staff if that was what had to be done, but that was not her go to. With regard to eliminating
services, discussions with the public about what is important to them will be vital.
In response to Mr. Sugg’s question, Councilmember Chen explained he chose to serve on the city council
because he loves the community. He was born and raised in China and had a very humble childhood. He
had an opportunity go to school in Iowa, worked his way up from taking ESL classes to getting his
accounting degree, passing the CPA exam and working as an internal auditor for Kimberly-Clark and ended
up in Edmonds. He has traveled the globe three times and Edmonds is the place he fell in love with. He
started a family, started his CPA firm, and got involved in the Chamber of Commerce, the Asian Service
Center, and other great organizations. He has lived in his home close to Lake Ballinger the longest of
anywhere and he has no plans to move. He ran for office to represent all of Edmonds; Edmonds does not
end at 9th Avenue anymore, the east side of the City contributes tremendously to the City’s sales tax revenue,
but there are issues with crime and infrastructure. A lot of progress has been made to uplift the entire City
and he was proud of that progress. His third reason for running for office was an opportunity to use his
experience in finance through his career as internal auditor and an auditor with one of the big five
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accounting firms, a master’s degree in accounting, and an MBA from Western Washington to serve the
community. During the last year, the City has experienced financial challenges and he was the
whistleblower. He was glad the community was able to rally together and that the current mayor is very
transparent and recognized the problem. He looked forward to working with everyone to work toward
financial stability and building a better, stronger community.
In response to Sam’s question about the calendar, Councilmember Dotsch explained council was given a
lot of information at the meeting which also included a decision point, a very challenging way to make
quality decisions. She noticed the same thing about the calendar, after that meeting, the next touchpoint is
the end of October which is during the budget season. She had been thinking about requesting monthly or
bimonthly updates. The more informed the council is, the better informed the public is and the community
knows when to be engaged. She suggested having touchpoints sooner, even a touchpoint while the DEIS is
underway to say whether the environmental impacts are greater than were originally thought to allow the
council to begin thinking about other options.
With regard to budgeting by priorities, Councilmember Dotsch wondered how the City was capturing the
community’s priorities. She recalled during one of the online open houses, 1,000 people visited it, but only
300 answered questions which shows something is missing. She wondered how the City could do better,
provide more alternatives, be more statistically significant, have follow-up, etc. She noted the City of
Bellevue does a good job with surveys that are very intentional. The council needs to hear from the
community. Moving forward, she favors taking a holistic view because everything relates to everything
else. The better the council understands the process, the better they understand the impacts their decisions
have.
Council President Olson read and responded to written comment from Christian Neau:
What due diligence did the council and its consultants perform prior to proposing the plan?
Council President Olson answered the planning board, planning department and council went through a lot
of steps and filters about how to approach the growth targets.
Did you walk through the proposed development area and neighborhood in addition to looking at
satellite pictures?
Council President Olson answered yes, pointing out all councilmembers and planning board members live
in the community and are long term residents and have had their feet on the ground
Did you talk to business owners and residents?
Council President Olson said she had empathy for a restauranteur who spoke at a city council meeting about
his investment in his business. She recognized there is some confusion about zoning decisions making
certain development possible, but a business’ lease will guide use of the space during the lease. The
comprehensive plan does consider displacement of residences and businesses who might be adversely
affected.
Does your plan include a proposal for the relocation/indemnification of the business owners?
Council President Olson assured there is no plan to relocate businesses and the City will not be involved in
development to implement the zoning.
Did you try to visualize how the proposed number of units could be built over the relatively small
footprint of the five corner parcels? Underground parking?
Council President Olson answered the “up to” of the bookend determines the environmental impact. No
decision has been made at this point to allow that density in any specific location; it is just being studied.
Janelle Cass, Edmonds, asked as the comprehensive plan is updated and there is a change in zoning, can
the council promise that they would vote against taxing property owners at the highest value or usage. For
example, someone owns a single family home in an area that is upzoned to allow a duplex and two DADUs,
taxation at that higher densification and value could force people out of homes. As an experienced
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environmental engineer who has done a lot of environmental assessments and impact analyses, she has
never accomplished an EIS in three months. She has done smaller environmental assessments that took a
minimum of eight months before the public outreach phase of the draft EIS. She asked what level of
confidence the council will have in data that is completed in just three months.
With regard to Ms. Cass’s first question, Council President Olson cautioned councilmembers not to make
promises that may not be within the council’s control.
Councilmember Paine referred to Ron Wambolt’s written question about where the additional population
will come from and how was the target of 13,000 was determined. For the past 10-15 years, the Puget Sound
area has attracted a people from other parts of the country and from around world due to the strong economy
particularly in the tech field and other large industrial companies such as Boeing. People who moved to
Seattle 15 years ago are now venturing into areas further away from Seattle which has become a pretty
challenging place to live. At a meeting with Roger Miller, CEO of WSDOT, he said WSDOT is planning
transportation projects around the expectation that Snohomish County will have a 23% population increase
in the next 20 years and most large transportation projects have a 15 year timeline. Of the 9,000 housing
units the City is zoning for, capacity was already put in place by prior councils and prior comprehensive
plans for 5,000 of those units so the current effort is only capacity for an additional 4,000 housing units.
Councilmember Nand referred to Christian Neau’s questions about decision making to get to this point in
the comprehensive plan process. Last year the council considered a contract with VIA that cost $650,000.
If changes that community members asked for were made, it would change the scope for work for the
comprehensive plan update and the cost could increase to close to $1 million. To put that in perspective,
the City pays the city attorney $1.1 million for a year’s worth of work. Her preference is for the City to
avoid paying the consultant more than $650,000 and still meet its legal obligation to have the
comprehensive plan update completed by December 31, 2024. Once the consultant is done working with
the planning department to aggregate all the information, it will come back to council and based on
community input, the council will make final decisions related to the comprehensive plan update. The City
is required to update the comprehensive plan every five years and between updates, zoning changes are
made. She is a small business attorney, helping small businesses turn their dreams into reality. Often the
zoning changes made between the state mandated comprehensive plan updates are the result of property
owners’ requests or the City is changing the zoning to accommodate changes in the market.
To Ms. Cass’s question whether the council could promise not to tax at highest and best use,
Councilmember Nand referred to the presentation by Snohomish County Assessor Linda Hjelle to council
last year about how each parcel is assessed; the assessment is incredibly mathematical and as equitable as
they can make it. There will be potential impacts from things like lot splitting, for example if more lots are
subdivided around a larger parcel and more density is occurring, that property owner could see a potential
change. That is something property owners need to lobby the state delegation in the 21st and 32nd District
about. Seniors and people with disabilities can apply for a property tax exemption.
4. CLOSING COMMENTS
Council President Olson invited councilmembers to share how the public can engage with them in the
coming weeks.
Councilmember Nand said an in-person conversation is worth five email. She has office hours in the council
office every Thursday at 4 pm. She has been lobbying the administration for a second opportunity for office
hours at the neighborhood city hall on Highway 99 that councilmembers could staff on a rotating basis.
There is nothing better than face-to-face and developing an in-person relationship with the council and the
administration. She encouraged the public to email or call her, set up a time for coffee or visit during her
office hours.
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Councilmember Paine said she has office hours on Wednesdays from 4-5 pm and will add extra hours on
Fridays from 10 am - 12 pm. The public is always welcome to call her at 425-361-8844 or email her with
questions. A lot of people think they know how councilmembers feel, but until they have a conversation,
they may not get the background on the councilmember’s thinking. She appreciated tonight’s town hall,
recognizing there were a lot of community events tonight including the Lynnwood community center
ground breaking that several councilmembers attended.
Councilmember Dotsch said she has business cards available and the City’s website has councilmembers’
emails and phone numbers. She was willing to go where residents are such as meet for coffee. If there was
anything that wasn’t answered tonight or someone wanted more information, she invited them to reach out
to her.
Councilmember Chen encouraged the public to reach out to council. Last year he started a citizen advisory
group and he encouraged anyone interested in joining to let him know. He was also willing to meet with
people wherever they are.
Councilmember Eck said meeting with the public is one of her favorite things and she has met with everyone
who has asked. She will make the time to meet in person or talk by phone. She is considering a monthly
Coffee with Chris somewhere like Caffe Ladro. The Edmonds Civic Roundtable is having a councilmember
at their meeting once a month.
Council President Olson commented she purposely didn’t speak too much tonight because she has been
around longer and people have heard plenty from her. She always answers emails and accepts invitations
to talk and she will continue doing that. She recalled during her campaign before the pandemic, she wanted
to have regular, monthly meetings with neighbors. She is seeking neighbors who want to walk together
once a week or she will come to their monthly meetings.
Council President Olson thanked the audience from coming. The council is trying to be super engaged,
recognizing a lot is happening very quickly this year. The council heard the public asking for more
touchpoints, to slow things down and to engage the public at the right times and she assured the council
and administration are doing their best to do that. She thanked Mayor Rosen for his support and involvement
with council since he took office, noting it has been a great, collaborative effort. The City is working hard
to have a great path forward. She expressed the council’s appreciation for the public attending tonight’s
meeting and looked forward to talking with them about issues.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further business, the special council meeting was adjourned at 8:59 pm.