PLN2024-0052 HE Decision Appendix A - October 24 EdmondsAppendix A
October 24, 2024 Hearing Transcript
Conditional Use — PLN2024-0052
Note: This is a compute -generated transcript provided for informational purposes only. The reader should
not take this document as 100% accurate or take offense at errors created by the limitations of the
programming in transcribing speech. A recording of the hearing is available from the City should anyone
need an accurate rendition of the hearing testimony.
Examiner Olbrechts: (00:00):
Got my recorder going. I heard yours is alright. For the record, it is October 24th, 2024, 3:00 PM 1 12.
Our hearing examiner for the City of Edmonds, considering an application today for a conditional use
permit to expand a daycare center. This is file number PL LN 2024 dash 0 0 5 2. Looks like we have Mr.
Sewell there sitting up front who is going to be the lead staff on that. Is that correct Mr. Sewell, are you
there? Yep. Okay, that's right. So the hearing format is, we'll start off with a presentation for Mr. Sewell.
Give us an overview of the project Once he's done, we'll allow the applicants to speak after applicants.
Then we move on to public comments and then after public comments we go back Mr. Sewell to answer
questions. Then the applicant, as a matter of due process, gets final word and I get 10 business days to
issue a final decision by state law, I'm only allowed to consider evidence that's put in the record today.
(00:53):
That's information that's made available to everybody participating in the hearing. That way we all know
exactly what information is being considered for the final decision there. I'm going to share my screen
real quick. Well, I guess I won't. I'll just tell you the staff report. Mr. Sewell put together a list, some
attachments that he wants to be made. Part of the record for everyone to consider. One would be the
application materials, two, determination of completeness, three of the public notice materials, four
public comments. We had some concerns about a noise raised. And then number five, engineering
compliance memorandum city's engineering department looked it over and made some
recommendations there. So with that I just want to ask if anybody needs to see any of these documents
or has any objection over entry in the record. If you're in the meeting room, just wave your hand or if
you're participating virtually you can just click on your virtual hand at the bottom of your screen. It looks
like we just have, do have one person attending virtually but no taker. So I'll go ahead and admit the
staff report along with the attachments one through four. So with that, Mr. Sewell, let me swear in, just
raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding?
Planner Sewell: (02:02):
Examiner Olbrechts: (02:02):
Do. Okay, great. Go ahead.
Planner Sewell: (02:04):
Alright, thank you Mr. Ulbrich. So today's presentation is pretty straightforward. The applicant applied
to expand an existing daycare on site at the Dale Village site. That's at 96 17 Dale Avenue. That's the
address of the full site. There might be some addresses in there. We potentially the applicant's may
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address the may differ, but that's the one the city generally regards as the site for our purposes. So just
brief summary of today's discussion, going to summarize their proposal, then going through how that
fits in with the 2020 comprehensive plan. Analyze the applicable codes. I have a typo there that should
not read hard. So that should read the FEMU zone Chapter 16 100. Apologies for that. It's a leftover
portion of my last time. Review criteria, the public comments received, and then staff recommendation.
All in all, this is a fairly short presentation. So to summarize, again, it's already existing daycare looking
to expand its footprint on the site.
(03:18):
It is going into a portion of the site that did suffer a fire a few years back and has been restored under
the legal nonconforming portion of evidence code. That's Chapter 1740. So this zone in general has a
pretty high design standard and was really intended for something that ultimately has not yet
happened. So there's a line log when applying the non -conforming code there. But that restoration was
done with that in mind and was approved under that by my colleague Rose. The proposal is for a
daycare center. Our code defines that as care of 13 plus children all under the age of 12 years old. And
that's conditionally permitted in this zone. That's why we're here. So between that reason and the fact
that it was legal, nonconforming, preexisting is also a permitted way or pathway to a conditional use
permit. Just to say that under chapter 1740, again the nonconforming uses. Nonconforming uses are
allowed to expand on a site that they are legally established in by pursuing a conditional use permit. So
two checks in conditional use permit box we're here today. So the review criteria are pretty
straightforward, spelled out into section 20 0 5 0 1 oh needs to be compatible with the comprehensive
plan. Needs to abide by zoning. Ordinance needs not to be detrimental to the community and then the
applicant can request transferability to the next owner or land use there.
(05:09):
So the comprehensive plan designates this site as neighborhood commercial and then has some further
specification. Unique to the Dale Village site, it's intended to provide a mix of services, shopping and
gathering places for no local neighbors and the immediate neighborhood, Dale Village specifically is
intended to serve as the local neighborhood village. Some of the criteria for consideration there again
includes orientation towards the street, access to transit and pedestrian presence, all of which are true
or improved by this proposal. Zoning ordinance. Of course, again, chapter 1600. The intent of this zone
is a vibrant neighborhood village form development striking a balance between commercial, retail and
residential uses contributing to a vital neighborhood and area or I mentioned that it conditionally
permits this use and again, under nonconforming uses. This daycare dates back to at least 1987. From
what I could tell at that time, it was far Snow hopes county unincorporated and it was incorporated into
Edmonds in 1997.
(06LM
The site was rezoned above Dale mixed use Del Village mixed use 2009. So this use predates both. Its
incorporation into the city and its rezoning to Dale. Mixed use. Nonconforming uses again may continue,
but if they seek to expand, they must receive a conditional use permit. As I mentioned, two different
motivations for water condition experiment is required detrimental, so condition permitted uses may
need to not be detrimental to the neighborhood. This review would be considered part of the issuance
and application for the necessary building permits. So making sure that it abides by the necessary
building code design standards and all the other elements required ongoing. Then we talked about
things like the property performance standards, the noise code, and any other relevant regulation which
would be held to no different than a conforming use or any other use within the zone. And the applicant
did not request any transferability of this permit. So it would be unique to this use in this solution.
(07:49):
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The city received one public comment from a neighbor expressing concern over the noise of the daycare
center as mentioned on previous slide, chapter five 30 of the Edmonds Community code controls noise
levels and Edmonds un amplified human voices are exempt with one exception, which is public
disturbance noises, which are repeated or intermittent repeated noises specifically between the hours
at 10:00 PM and 7:00 AM which does not seem like the operating hours. So this daycare based on the
applicant's materials. So from what I can tell, the neighborhood would not be dramatically impacted in
any way. That would be detrimental by being over the threshold of this portion of code. Anyone may
request a code enforcement of course should they believe a violation exists. So staff recommends the
approval of this application. It is compatible with the comprehensive plans and intent and means for
that zone. It's compliant with the zoning code by way of an application for this permit. It's not
detrimental by way of compliance with the building design and traffic and engineering standards that
have been or will be approved with the associated building permits and compliance ongoing would be
enforced. No different than any other use for the portions of the code that the public had comments
about. Again, transferability was not requested. Planning doesn't see a mean reason to grant them at
this time without the request. That is all.
Examiner Olbrechts: (09:38):
Okay. Yeah, I did have some questions. Put that screen up here. Alright. Yeah, I'm just trying, I don't
have very good idea of what's going on on this site. I finally did see if north is up down at the southeast
corner where the proposed expansion is going to be. Is this going to be an expansion of an existing
building or is this just the restoration of what you said was the building and partially burnt down or
something?
Planner Sewell:
Correct. That work's already done. The restoration of the building, the structure is there. The ongoing
work to my knowledge is the tenant improvement change of use interior aspect. So the exterior aspect
associated with that restoration, that work has already been underway or completed. Need to refresh
myself on that. But the permit was issued for that in excess of a year ago.
Examiner Olbrechts: (10:32):
Oh, okay. And so the existing childcare, is that the cocoon childcare on the west side of this
development?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Correct.
Examiner Olbrechts: (10:41):
Okay. And so I mean, how much of an expansion of area does this involve? This slightly looks like it's
could be twice as much or something, or rather a hundred percent expansion or something. Is that kind
of the nature of the expansion?
Planner Sewell: (10:54):
Yeah, we'll have to pull materials.
Examiner Olbrechts: (10:59):
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Oh, just real rough. So it is a big expansion of space. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think the biggest impact
you always worry about with daycare is the noise and the neighbors are saying it's already been a
problem, so I want to be just make sure there's nothing we can do about it or that kind of thing. So is the
children's play areas that's still just going to be up at the existing cocoon childcare? Is that what we're
talking about? Is that where they're going to be outdoors?
Planner Sewell: (11:29):
There had been discussion previously of attempting to install a childcare area near the new portion. I
believe that had been abandoned due to difficulties with the zoning code and design requirements
associated with Dale Village. It wasn't really meant for that. That zone is very specific, would be a charity
way to describe it. It was intended for something very, very specific and the city's been working around
that ever since. So I believe in the interest of not trying to push that envelope too much hard, too hard,
or trying to delve into an application for a zoning code amendment. I believe the play area was retained
over at the existing site.
Examiner Olbrechts: ( ZIZ):
I see. Okay. And I've always wondered about that, and I don't know if you know this or not. I mean, do
landscaping buffers help mitigate noise in any significant fashion? Is that something that we maybe
could put, because it doesn't look like there's any landscaping along part of the play area there. I'm
wondering if that could help or fencing or something could be done structurally that could mitigate
noise impacts.
Planner Sewell: ( ZA: ):
Yeah, my understanding of our zoning code is that it's, excuse me, our landscape design code is that its
intent is visual separation. I don't believe it ever intends or claims to serve
Examiner Olbrechts: (13:00):
Audible
Planner Sewell: (13:01):
Separation.
Examiner Olbrechts: (13:02):
So as far as nothing we could do that would significantly decrease noise with landscaping or fencing
around there, I
Planner Sewell: (13:09):
Don't believe we would've a code specific.
Examiner Olbrechts: (13:13):
Yeah, well I mean you could require it under the general conditional use criteria of preventing material
impacts, that kind of thing. So it's is within the purview, but it's just an issue of would it really make a
difference or not. And I don't have any evidence that it would. I see there's a bunch of trees located on
the, I guess you call it the north side of cocoon childcare. Is that part of the play area as well or where is
the play area exactly?
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Planner Sewell: (13:45):
If I'm not mistaken, it's where you're pointing out.
Examiner Olbrechts: (13:47):
Oh, okay. So you can see it's this area here. Is it also this area here as well?
Planner Sewell: (13:52):
It
Examiner Olbrechts: (13:53):
Both. I
Planner Sewell: (13:53):
Don't believe it's this rear area, but I might have to ask the
Examiner Olbrechts:
Applicants about that. Okay. So yeah, this is the play area where already have, it looks like quite a few
trees there to begin with. And what are the uses right of Joanie uses right along here? Are they single
family homes? I don't recall from your staff
Planner Sewell: (14:10):
Report. Let me pull that up. It is single family homes on basically all sides. All except for the east and to
the north. Okay. Alright, perfect. Borderline of course outside of our jurisdiction, but it's difficult single
development over
Examiner Olbrechts: (14:27):
There. Okay. Alright. Okay, I think those are all the questions I had. Mr. Sewell, thank you for those
clarifications. Let's move on to applicant's now if they want. And Mr. Sewell, is that the applicant's table
right next to you? It's the
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yes.
Examiner Olbrechts: (14:41):
Oh, okay. Are the applicants sitting here today or
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yes. Could I speak?
Examiner Olbrechts: (14:47):
Yeah, you can come up and sit at your table actually if you want. They even got a little name tag for you
so you're all set there. That's
Speaker 3 (14:53):
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Okay. The
Examiner Olbrechts: (14:54):
Main, well, sir, I have to swear you in and get your name for the record. Just raise your right hand. Do
you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing about the truth in this proceeding?
Speaker 3 (15 ):
Yes I
Examiner Olbrechts: (15:03):
Do. Okay. And what's your name for the record?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I stead on the operations manager for Golden Coast. We are a contractor on the
Examiner Olbrechts: (15:11):
Project. Okay, great.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
The engineer who the applicant is through him has been trying to sign in and has been unable to, so I'm
really sure.
Examiner Olbrechts: (15:25):
Oh, well if you want, oh, well go ahead.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Well, he did email a statement though that I could read.
Examiner Olbrechts: (15:34):
Sure, yeah,
Speaker 3 (15:35):
If you'd like.
Examiner Olbrechts: (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15 ):
So he states I am the applicant, the owner's representative for the ongoing Purdue Village Fire Damage
Restoration. The Southern building sustained a total lost fire at the east end of the building. Design was
submitted and approved by the city for the new construction, the existing daycare at the village
approach, the owner of a expanding into the new building space. We worked with the project teams to
update the plans, including the site plans to show landscaping barriers, parking spaces, and pedestrian
walkways and accessible ramps to gain safe factory into the building. There is no proposed new play
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area in the existing entryways that exits with speed bumps provide the necessary safety for both
pedestrians and motor vehicle operators. Dale Village was originally established in 1942 with the
building furthest north established in 1966 and the espresso stand in 1980. The village has its own
zoning designation, the FYMU, which is the feral village mixed teams.
(16:56):
The community surrounding the village includes single family and multifamily developments. Most of
these, including the single family development along the north side of the village property and the
multifamily development along the east side where established after the village, the businesses of the
village have and continued to provide services to the community that provide economic and social
benefits along with community sustainability. Thank you to the City Amendments development services
for working with the project team and for their approval of this conditional use permit. The rest of the
project team presented this meeting. We'll go into more detail regarding the tenant, the benefits
provided to the community, and address concerns noted by the city council and public hearing in
Congress.
Examiner Olbrechts: (17:52):
Okay, fantastic. One question I did have is how many more children do you think are going to be going
to the site? I mean, how many do you usually have now? And as a result of the expansion, what's going
to be your capacity?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
It's something a bit business owner I think should answer.
Examiner Olbrechts: (18:10):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Capacity now is 39.
Examiner Olbrechts: (18:13):
Oh ma'am, I need you to, sorry, I have to, I have to swear you in first. Yeah. Do you swear affirm to tell
the truth? Nothing but the truth this proceeding? Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (18 ):
Thank
Examiner Olbrechts: (18:32):
You. Okay. Yes. Raise your right hand. Do you swear Affirm, tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this
proceeding. Second. Okay, and what's your name for the record?
Speaker 4 (18:41):
My name is Garcia.
Examiner Olbrechts: (18:43):
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Okay, great. Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Okay, so the capacity that we have right now for my existing building is three nine and we're planning to
have around three, four children, three eight. It all depends about the D requirements.
Examiner Olbrechts: (19:02):
Okay. Okay. That's very useful. Thank you. Anything else you wanted to say? Okay, perfect. Alright,
anything else from the applicants at all?
Planner Sewell: (19:12):
We do have two callers online. I believe both of them represent the applicant. So you're welcome to
check in with them or allow them
Examiner Olbrechts: (19:21):
Talk. Yeah, I guess they're, let's see, it seems to be attending by phone. Do you know Mr. Sewell, how do
they make it known that they want to speak? If they're on the phone, I'm not sure how to do that when
they're on the phone.
Planner Sewell: (19:32):
I believe the instructions are included when they call in, there's a button to press a number. I believe it
might be one.
Examiner Olbrechts: (19:39):
Okay. Alright. Well I'll just ask you. Yeah, either of those. Oh, sorry sir.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
I just believe one of them are regional director Greg Soad and I believe now the other one is the
engineer that they got signed
Examiner Olbrechts:
Up. Oh, they managed to, okay. Well what I'll do it, in case they're having trouble participating is we can
send a link of the audio recording and I can also have an electronic transcript written up in the next
hour. And if you can have your other members of the applicant team look that over and if there's
something they want to add to the record, they can do it. Submit something in writing by, we'll say five
tomorrow. So I'll email electronic transcript to Mr. Sewell and Mr. Sewell, maybe if you can give them a
link of the Zoom recording, they can look it over and if, yeah, if there was something and they wanted to
add to the record, they're welcome to do that by 5:00 PM tomorrow. And I'll just ask for the record, is
there anyone else who wants to speak, anybody at all who wants to speak on this application, whether
you're in the room right now or you're attending virtually?
(20:41):
If you're attending virtually, click on the virtual hand at the bottom of your screen. If you've got a
computer monitor, it doesn't look. It looks like everyone's by phone today and no one else in the
audience. So like I said, I'll go ahead and close the record. I'll order a transcript, I'll send that to Mr.
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Sewell. Mr. Sewell, send it to the applicants. You can look it over. If there was anything you wanted to
add from the record, go ahead and do so. I think the most important information, as you know, I mean
the only concern here is noise, and I just want to get a good understanding of how much noise will
increase as a result. It doesn't look like a huge increase in the number of children. The play area is
already surrounded by trees. I don't think there's much more we can do with it at this point.
(21:22):
But if there's anything you can think of in terms of noise impacts, let us know. Just email Mr. Sewell and
I'll consider that as part of the record. So any questions or anything else? I mean, beyond that, it's a
great community asset. Of course daycare is always, we always need more of that and it's a great service
to the community. So it looks like a good project. And other than the noise impact shouldn't have too
much trouble approving it. So with that, I'll go ahead and close the hearing, except as I said in case the
applicants have additional comments they want to make. And I'll get the transcript out to Mr. Sewell. So
thanks all for participating. We're done for the day. It okay.
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