2024-10-29 Council Special MinutesEDMONDS CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING
APPROVED MINUTES
October 29, 2024
ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT
Mike Rosen, Mayor
Vivian Olson, Council President
Chris Eck, Councilmember
Will Chen, Councilmember
Neil Tibbott, Councilmember
Michelle Dotsch, Councilmember
Susan Paine, Councilmember (arrived 6:16 pm)
Jenna Nand, Councilmember
1. CALL TO ORDER/FLAG SALUTE
STAFF PRESENT
Kim Dunscombe, Acting Finance Director
Shane Hope, Acting Planning & Dev. Dir.
Mike Clugston, Sr. Planner/Acting Planning Mgr.
Leif Bjorback, Building Official
Tristan Sewell, Planner
Jeff Taraday, City Attorney
Beckie Peterson, Council Executive Assistant
Scott Passey, City Clerk
Jerrie Bevington, Camera Operator
The Edmonds City Council meeting was called to order at 5:59 pm by Mayor Rosen in the Council
Chambers, 250 5"' Avenue North, Edmonds, and virtually. The meeting was opened with the flag salute.
2. LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
Councilmember Eck read the City Council Land Acknowledgement Statement: "We acknowledge the
original inhabitants of this place, the Sdohobsh (Snohomish) people and their successors the Tulalip Tribes,
who since time immemorial have hunted, fished, gathered, and taken care of these lands. We respect their
sovereignty, their right to self-determination, and we honor their sacred spiritual connection with the land
and water."
3. ROLL CALL
City Clerk Scott Passey called the roll. All elected officials were present with the exception of
Councilmember Paine (arrived at 6:16 pm).
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
COUNCIL PRESIDENT OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER ECK, TO
APPROVE THE AGENDA IN CONTENT AND ORDER.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER TIBBOTT, TO
REMOVE AGENDA ITEM 10.1, 6-MONTH O&M CONTRACT WITH ECOREMEDY, LLC, AT
STAFF'S REQUEST AND MOVE ITEMS 10.2 AND 10.3 TO 10.1 AND 10.2. AMENDMENT
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. (Councilmember Paine was not present for the vote.)
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. (Councilmember Paine was not present for the vote.)
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 1
5. COUNCIL BUSINESS
1. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN: LAND USE & HOUSING
Planning & Development Director Shane Hope commented a lot of work has occurred and is continuing.
She provided an overview of the Land Use & Housing elements:
Comprehensive plan process overview
County adopted housing units
target (includes existing capacity
including H-99)
Edmonds currently has capacity for 5148
units, but only 4,946 units can be counted
towards growth targets.
• 4862 units that are multi family, senior
apartments Le low rise or mid rise
• 84 units that must are middle housing
• Capacity for ADUs has not previously
been evaluated
• 201 units that are single family (Not
Counted as they do not satisfy HB
1220)
• Growth Alternatives
4,946
Existing
4 9464,123 1 Capacity
Per BLR
Existing r t +
Capacty 2,052
Per BLR
H 81110+Hb1337 •
Achieved Ca aci
9,069 — 4,946 = 4,123 250-300 units
Loss of units in UNOCAL
property
Required Typology for the total 4,123
1952 - low-rise or mid -rise multi -family
apartment category.
2129 ADUs or low-rise or mid -rise multi-
family apartment category.
42 units that are middle housing low-rise
or mid -rise multi -family apartment
category
2,400 unit
City to find potential growth locations feasible to
accommodate this additional housing
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 2
A: Focused Growth
Growth continuing along Hwy 99, downtown, etc.
4 Neighborhood centers
• some mid -scale mixed use (commercial on
ground floor & apartments or condos above
• up to 4 floors + 5th floor if special
community benefits provided
4 Neighborhood hubs (smaller than centers)
• mixed use up to 3 stories
• no bonus floor incentive
ALTERNATIVE A. FOCUSED GROWTH
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Draft Comp Plan
o Elements
■ Introduction
■ Land Use
■ Housing
■ Economy
■ Climate
■ Culture, History & Urban Design
■ Capital Facilities
■ Utilities
■ Transportation
■ Appendices
Land Use Element
o Goals & Policies by Section
■ Citywide*
■ Neighborhood Centers & Hubs
• Downtown
■ Waterfront
B: Distributed Growth
Growth continuing along Hwy 99, downtown, etc.
4 Neighborhood centers (smaller than Alt. A)
• some mid -scale mixed use (commercial on ground floor
& apartments or condos above)
• up to 3 floors if special community benefits
provided
7 Neighborhood hubs
• low -scale mixed use
• up to 3 stories + 4th floor if special
community benefits provided
ALTERNATIVE B: FOCUSED GROWTH
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o Layout of Each Major Element
1. Guiding principle (very high level)
2. Background information
3. Goals and policies (broad direction)
4. Potential implementation items (more
specific action steps to consider)
*Proposed Replacement of Policy LU-1.10 (about
MUGA boundaries) (per city council 10/1/24 city
council meeting
"The City Council may consider a proposal affecting its
Municipal Urban Growth Area boundary after receiving
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 3
■ Highway 99 Activity Center &
Subarea
■ Priority Use Areas
■ Natural Environments
o Potential Action Items
Housing Element
o Goals & Policies by Section
■ Housing diversity
■ People's Policies
■ Supportive Housing
■ Regulatory Framework
■ Adapting to Climate Change
o Potential Action Items
adequate information to determine whether it is in the City's
best interest to take action on the proposal. The information
should include:
1. Whether any other jurisdiction affected by the proposed
MUGA boundary change is willing to approve or consider
approving the change;
2. An engineering analysis of how the infrastructure of the
proposed MUGA expansion area meets or does not meet
the City's standards for level of service; and
3. The improvements that may be needed (including any
downstream capacity -related improvements) and their
cost as estimated by a qualified engineering firm, for the
area to meet the City's standards.
The City Council may consider the resulting information,
along with any other relevant factors, and identify whether
additional information should be obtained and/or potential
tools, such as an LID process to achieve the infrastructure
improvements deemed necessary, be required as part of a City
decision to pursue a MUGA boundary change."
Councilmember Nand asked with regard to housing, was there a way to place a prioritization on safety
elements in multistory buildings such as ingress/egress windows, fire escapes, etc. When she visits Capitol
Hill, she sees hermitically sealed windows and limited opportunities to escape if there was a fire, earthquake
or other disaster. Ms. Hope responded the building code addresses windows, egress, fire requirements, etc.
She agreed more work needed to be done on emergency management planning, but that is not covered
specifically in the comprehensive plan. Councilmember Nand suggested having a link to requirements for
fire escapes, exit options, etc. for higher building heights in the DEIS or comprehensive plan. Ms. Hope
answered that could be a potential action item which would be implemented by zoning or the building code.
With regard to the housing number, Councilmember Dotsch recalled there was a excess buffer percentage
that was factored in and asked how much the excess was. Ms. Hope recalled there was a 10% buffer; the
ultimate number is about 2,400 which she thought excluded the buffer, but she offered to doublecheck.
Councilmember Eck liked the way this was put this together, particularly the calculation of the number of
units. She commented that calculation cannot be overcommunicate to the community, especially that the
target is 2,400 over 20 years.
Councilmember Chen expressed appreciation for the housing requirements. He asked if green housing
incentives later on tonight's agenda was part of the housing element of the comprehensive plan or was it
totally separate. Ms. Hope answered it is separate and is a result of the existing comprehensive plan which
recommended being more sustainable and looking at ways to encourage green building. Councilmember
Chen asked if the green incentive program was incorporated in this update, could the City fulfill the
comprehensive plan update requirements. Ms. Hope answered definitely as there are things about
sustainability, climate, etc. in the draft comprehensive plan as well as the existing comprehensive plan.
With regard to whatever growth alternative is chosen, Councilmember Dotsch asked if there was an
opportunity to do a phased implementation versus doing it all at once. Ms. Hope answered it depends; the
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 4
City has to show it is adopting capacity; figuring that out will occur in the zoning code. Councilmember
Dotsch commented there is infrastructure and other things coming later that can possibly have an influence.
She wondered if there was an opportunity to be more mindful of how fast changes occur in certain areas.
Ms. Hope responded in a lot of cases, there is infrastructure. Thinking about 2,400 units divided into 10
places over 20 years, that is 240 units in each of those places which is not a huge amount and will provide
some opportunity to ensure the infrastructure matches up. Every time a project is proposed, it has to go
through a checklist to ensure the infrastructure is there or the developer pays the difference.
Council President Olson referred to the land use maps, pointing out in the packet Alternatives A and B are
both titled Focused Growth. Ms. Hope said Alternative A should be titled Focused Growth and Alternative
B should be titled Distributed Growth. She will provide Council the maps with the correct titles.
Council President Olson referred to the Growth Alternative slide and asked about the differential between
current heights and an additional floor if special community benefits are provided and how that ties in with
the additional height for green incentives. Ms. Hope relayed her understanding that Council President Olson
was asking staff to provide more details when discussing the preferred alternatives. This is still somewhat
high level and the council may choose to do a hybrid of the growth alternatives. In most, there is one floor
above the existing height limit, but in the Focused Growth Alternative it is up to 4 floors and a 5th floor if
special community benefits are provided. That is one of the options the council could choose, but is certainly
not the only option; council could choose a blend of Alternatives A and B. In Distributed Growth it is up
to 3 stories if special community benefits are provided. She will provide further details in the presentation
of the preferred alternative at the council's November 4 meeting.
Council President Olson suggested providing the boards with circles that were displayed at community
meetings. Ms. Hope agreed staff will provide those along with more detail for each center and hub. Council
President Olson observed in the Distributed Growth alternative, the hubs are more significant or more dense
than the centers. Ms. Hope responded in Focused Growth, the neighborhood centers are the biggest and
then four neighborhood hubs, which although they are smaller than the centers, they are bigger than the
seven neighborhood hubs in the Distributed Growth alternative. Council President Olson observed the
neighborhood hub in the Distributed Growth has a 4tb floor option which is more than even the
neighborhood center in that option. Ms. Hope agreed, advising council can choose a blend of A and B as
the preferred alternative. When discussing the preferred alternative, the planning board considered each one
to see what made sense, an A or B version or a slight blend. She noted as long as the alternatives add up to
the numbers, that is the main thing.
Councilmember Paine apologized for arriving late, thinking the meeting started at 7 pm. She watched the
planning board meeting and loved that there were two significantly different alternatives along with the do
nothing alternative. She expressed interest in the opportunity to not have the tallest buildings along
Highway 99 and have a more distributed pattern, envisioning that taller buildings on Highway 99 creates a
visual and infrastructure barrier between the sides of Highway 99. She hoped there would not be a visual
canyon created along Highway 99, one of the busiest and most dangerous roads in the state. She looked
forward to the discussion at next Monday's 5:30 pm meeting, noting this is an important piece of work that
the City has been working toward for the last 2%2 years.
Councilmember Eck asked if the ADU, DADUS, duplexes and triplexes were included or excluded from
the 2,400. Ms. Hope answered they were excluded from the 2,400.
Councilmember Nand referred to a question she sent Ms. Hope about addressing racial equity and
displacement. Goal H-2 states, "Implement measures to increase the affordable housing supply while
enhancing the public realm of growth areas." and Policy H-2.4 states, "Consider the reduction of parking
requirements for residential developments in areas proximate to transit service or based on planned
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 5
occupancy (such as seniors, affordable units) to reduce construction costs and to promote affordability of
residential development." She expressed concern about the idea of reduced parking, pointing out during the
mandatory evacuation for Hurricanes Milton and Helene, gas stations were running out of gas due to people
trying to fill up on gas to reach safety and as a result 230 people died. With a lot of density centered in one
place, during an emergency people will not be able to rely on buses or trains to reach safety and may need
to use their car to drive away. She wanted assurance with the coming multifamily and larger buildings that
the idea of minimum parking would be preserved. Ms. Hope commented although the City has not gotten
into the zoning regulations yet, it is her intent to retain parking requirements although there may be
considerations for different housing types and in some cases it will not be one parking space per unit. For
example, senior housing or retirement homes, not everyone will be driving. She summarized there will be
some parking requirements and it will be up to the council to approve a code that supports that.
Councilmember Tibbott commented one of his overwhelming impressions of this comprehensive plan was
that it was trying to do everything, improve the environment and housing, increase density, transportation
improvements, etc. and some of them seem to be in conflict with each other. For example, the desire for
greater housing density, but also having open space and trees and preserving the environment, but also build
lot line to lot line. He asked how to interpret that for the future. Ms. Hope agreed the comprehensive plan
is tackling a lot, but at a broad level. The state GMA requires the City look broadly at transportation,
housing, including new housing requirements, environment, open space, etc. She agreed there logically
should be a balance point; for example with open space, how much open space? Choices have to be made
sometimes through codes, investment in parks, etc. She agreed it was a balancing act, just like with one's
home — you want it to be really nice but not cost a lot.
Councilmember Tibbott said if this is a 20 year plan, he envisioned a future council in 10 years coming
across a comprehensive plan element that says there needs to be high density in Perrinville and add 3-4
stories depending on whether the council chooses Alternative A or B, but what happens with stormwater
runoff with higher density? He wondered how future councils will interpret what the council is doing today.
Ms. Hope responding the comprehensive plan, the EIS, and regulations tell a story so if development occurs
in areas with existing stormwater issues, the new stormwater regulations need to be met. The new
stormwater management codes are much stricter than the ones that were in place when a lot of that
development occurred. There are still issues to consider so this council may choose not to allow as much
development in an area such as Perrinville for environmental reason and that will be reflected in the plan.
The council can review the comprehensive plan annually and if something is not working or a different
alternative needs to be considered, that can be done. The comprehensive plan is adopted by ordinance which
creates a record for future councils to follow.
Councilmember Tibbott referred to the two big boards that were displayed last night, relaying he noticed
in Alternative B with all hubs, they all have some level of multifamily development and commercial which
to him looked like transition zones that are already moving from low density housing to higher density and
more commercial uses. Those transition zones would seem to be useful for the City as it looks to add 2,400
units. He noted some of those have commercial enterprises and ownership groups that may or may not be
interested in going from one story to three stories. He asked if the comprehensive plan incentivizes that or
is it just on paper to be considered at some future date. Ms. Hope responded the comprehensive plan does
not speak to incentivizing. If council wants to consider that, it could be considered as part of a development
regulation in the future.
Councilmember Dotsch said she feels there are a lot prescriptive things in the elements that cost time,
money and staff, programs the City does not have the ability to do on its own. The elements contain a lot
of prescriptive language as well as a lot of planning jargon and some definitions are not defined. She was
still confused about the activity centers and asked if staff had a slide with the map of Edmonds with circles.
She recalled originally Highway 99 and Downtown Waterfront were separate. The comprehensive plan
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 6
discusses quite a bit of development in the Downtown Waterfront Activity Center which is from 9t1' up to
Caspers and down to the waterfront. She did not think the DEIS accounted for any growth. Ms. Hope
responded it did. Councilmember Dotsch commented there are some intensive environmental impacts in
those areas due to proximity to the water. Ms. Hope displayed the following:
ALTERNATIVE A: FOCUSED GROWTH ALTERNATIVE B: FOCUSED GROWTH
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Councilmember Dotsch continued, referring to Goal H-2.3, "Provide for a higher number of units per lot
around the transit stops in activity centers," commenting there is now a bus and bus stops on 9t1i and in
residential neighborhoods, on Dayton, etc. The Downtown Waterfront Activity Center is quite large and
ill-defined with regard to how it will grow and the comprehensive plan, as written, greatly impacts that
area. Ms. Hope explained the requirements in state legislation are related to within the vicinity of to '/2
mile of a major transit center, not bus stops. Councilmember Dotsch pointed out the comprehensive plan
does not say that. She recalled that was discussed by the planning board because literally every
neighborhood is within'/2 mile of a bus stop. Ms. Hope advised staff will address that.
Councilmember Dotsch asked staff to add the number of feet along with the number of stories; the existing
comprehensive plan refers to feet. Ms. Hope offered to include both, commenting some like feet and others
like stories. With regard to Councilmember Dotsch's comment that some things are still prescriptive, she
also noticed a few things that had not been swept into potential action items; staff will be looking at that.
Councilmember Chen commented special community benefit was referenced in a couple places under the
growth alternatives, in particular one the centers states if a special community benefit is provided,
development can include a 5t1' floor. He asked for an example of what type of special community benefit
would qualify for a 5t" floor. Ms. Hope noted more detail would be provided in the code. The idea she has
heard expressed related to special community benefit is going above and beyond the standard code such as
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 7
providing extra open space, extra community amenities in addition to what would normally be required.
The exact requirement will be worked out in the zoning code.
Council President Olson referred to an earlier comment about not wanting towering buildings on Highway
99 creating a corridor effect. She agreed and supported that idea, but supported requiring some minimum
density which she did not see referenced in the comprehensive plan. She did not think there should be any
single story development on Highway 99 because, from an economic standpoint, it was not in the City's
best interest. She suggested a minimum of two stories. Ms. Hope recalled that was discussed as part of the
Highway 99 plan and there may be something in that plan. The idea was to have a Floor Area Ratio (FAR)
such that the only way it could be accomplished was two stories or the code could state a minimum of two
stories. The intent was mixed use. Council President Olson anticipated that would make the area more
walkable. Ms. Hope envisioned staff s focus would first be on what is required by the state related to
housing, but also changes on Highway 99 to support the kinds of things the council has been talking about
such as making it more vibrant.
Council President Olson referred to Policy LU-19.1 which mentions interconnected park system, relaying
when she thinks about an interconnected park system, she thought about the greenway loop proposal,
something she never understood. People go from their home to various open spaces, parks and recreational
opportunities, but they don't typically go from one to another. It would be of interest to her and likely other
community members to have interconnected business districts so people could do multiple errands. She
was concerned about a comprehensive plan policy or goal associated with interconnecting parks. She
suggested an overt conversation with council and the community to ensure that was something people
wanted; she personally did not. Ms. Hope answered it might make sense for some parks to be interconnected
such as along the waterfront, but it doesn't necessarily make sense throughout the community. Council
President Olson said she is supportive of connecting parts of the trail system, but not connecting parks.
Councilmember Eck commented a lot of the concerns tonight are addressed in policy goals. With regard to
sensitive areas and stormwater, using Perrinville as example, the goal cannot be to just build, build, build;
there can't be growth just anywhere. Builders must abide by the City's stormwater regulations and work
closely with planning & development and would not be permitted to build in sensitive areas. Ms. Hope
agreed, acknowledging the concern about environmentally sensitive areas, assuring clearly those are off
limits. Steeper slopes may be an exception; building can occur on a 15-30 degree slope, but a lot more
geotechnical work would need to be done which is more expensive for a developer so often they don't
bother with those areas. Sensitive areas like wetlands or fish habitat cannot be built on. Councilmember
Eck point out as the council discusses green incentives later on the agenda, some of what is allowed with
green incentives for DADUs would allow the DADU to be sited away from a tree to preserve it.
With regard to downtown, Councilmember Dotsch commented the way the comprehensive plan is written,
mixed use is used a lot. She asked whether BD zoning would still be allowed if this comprehensive plan is
approved. Ms. Hope answered yes, there was no reason to change it based on the comprehensive plan.
Councilmember Dotsch referred to community incentives, commenting green space, open space, retention
of trees could be an incentive for higher density. With regard to lot combination and frontage, she
commented the developer of the Baskin & Robbins halved the lots to get out of providing green space. She
suggested look at that loophole in the code, especially in downtown, to avoid losing green space and open
space as development occurs. Ms. Hope pointed out a lot of code work still needs to be done and likely will
need to be done in stages. For example, in the first six months, staff will have to focus on implementing the
state requirements, but after that a lot of things could be done to make the code better.
Councilmember Paine referred to Policy LU 26.1, relaying her hope the City can create tree care initiatives,
partner with local nurseries etc. She referred to Policy LU 26.4, "promote "right tree, right place,"
commenting sometimes there can be a grand, transgenerational tree in areas where there are views, but it
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 8
provides a great deal of canopy cover. At some point the City will need to develop a tree code and policy
direction via an ordinance to be clear about doing the right thing for the environment, preserve wildlife
corridors and trees. She referred to Policy LU-26.1, "Invest in tree plantings in areas that have documented
high summer temperatures, risk of flooding and low tree canopy to enhance ecosystem services and improve
equity" which was something she wanted to focus on. Looking at the comprehensive plan through the lens
of climate action, it does a lot in really meaningful ways.
6. AUDIENCE COMMENTS
Jim Ogonowski, Edmonds, said he found the comprehensive plan discussion very enlightening. He
referred to a comment about planning for 2400 additional units, commenting he was trying to visualize
what that will look like and someone's comment that it would be distributed around ten areas in the City.
He cited the Hazel Apartments on Highway 99 which is approximately 200 units as an example; 2400 is 10
of that type of development throughout the City to reach the 2400 growth target. He found it daunting to
think of it in that sense because that is a 5-story building. He questioned whether that was what residents
want the City to look like.
Richard Bologna, Edmonds, said he believes the city council and mayor should approach the budget
deficit by not only cutting expenditures, but also maximizing revenue sources. Much of the budget gap can
be attributed to the negative effects of the Covid pandemic. By all accounts the U.S. economy has been
healthy this year, price inflation may be subsiding, and other financial indicators are improving. The
hardship to individuals of being laid off is unfortunate; area businesses operating at full capacity will
enhance City revenues. It is good to focus on building and assisting successful Edmonds businesses,
something the Edmonds Chamber does quite well. On a personal level, he would like to work within his
sphere of influence to increase parking in the downtown core which will directly contribute to generating
more business revenue in Edmonds.
Janelle Cass, Edmonds, expressed her concern with tonight's presentation on the land use and housing
comprehensive plan elements. First and foremost, there is a change in terminology on packet page 15
regarding the future land use designations that introduces "Mixed Use-3, Mixed Use-4, and Mixed Use-5,"
replacing Mixed Use Commercial, Community Commercial and Neighborhood Commercial. In the current
economy, small and medium businesses cannot compete with the demand for residential development. For
example, the project on 5th Avenue South that will have little viable commercial space and changes to area
like Firdale Village where there are culturally diverse small businesses that are at huge risk for displacement
when facing a residential -focused type of mixed use. The health of the City's finances is directly related to
having a balanced ratio of businesses to residential. While residential brings in property tax, it is a debit to
the balance sheet because of the services and infrastructure, whereas businesses bring in property tax, sales
tax and jobs.
Ms. Cass continued, many cities strive to have 35% commercial land use to a 65% residential use; Edmonds
is only 8% commercial and she wondered if that contributed to the current financial crisis. She urged the
council to focus on the foundational numerical assumptions that the comprehensive plan is based on; she
encouraged the council to question and push back on the assumption on packet page 10 that future housing
will only be occupied at a rate of 1.4 persons/dwelling. The current occupancy in Edmonds is 2.25/dwelling;
if that assumption were used in the calculation, the required housing goal could be reduced to 5,828.
Another important number to consider on packet page 46 is the goal of 4,123 which makes an assumption
there is currently zero capacity for ADUs; the 0 in the chart should be TBD which will bring down the
required housing numbers. Edmonds has been doing its fair share, exceeding its GMA goal year after year
and is one of the densest cities in the Puget Sound area. She urged the City to do good math and preserve
green spaces.
7. RECEIVED FOR FILING
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 9
1. OUTSIDE BOARDS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
2. WRITTEN PUBLIC COMMENTS
3. CIP/CFP 2025-2030 QUERIES
4. BUDGET QUERIES 2.0 -COUNCIL BUDGET QUESTIONS AND
ADMINISTRATION/STAFF RESPONSES
7. APPROVAL OF CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS
COUNCIL PRESIDENT OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER PAINE, TO
APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. The agenda items approved are as follows:
1. APPROVAL OF PAYROLL AND BENEFIT CHECKS, DIRECT DEPOSIT AND WIRE
PAYMENTS
2. APPROVAL OF PROPERTY TAX AND EMS LEVY ORDINANCES
9. PUBLIC HEARING
1. PUBLIC HEARING ON PRELIMINARY BUDGET
Mayor Rosen opened the public hearing. He explained the public hearing will be a Q&A; each person
participating in the hearing will have three minutes to either state a comment or ask questions and he and
Acting Finance Director Kim Dunscombe will do their best to briefly answer questions. Following the
public hearing, each councilmember will have three minutes to make comments.
Jim Ogonowski, Edmonds, expressed his appreciation for this format, envisioning it would be easy to ask
a question about the budget, but it was actually more difficult than he anticipated. Part of the reason was he
has two sets of documents, the budget book and the presentations and discussions and he was having a
difficult time reconciling them. He's heard the City cut $7 million in expenses, yet he could not find $7
million in expenditure cuts in the budget book. He's heard 46 positions unfunded, but could not find 46
unfunded positions in the budget book. He's heard about a 10-year recovery plan; the budget book shows
the City is insolvent by 2027. The council adopts the budget book, not the presentations. If the discussion
topics were part of the budget book, he would have expected at a minimum decision packages associated
with each of the ideas in the presentations, but did not see any decision package in the budget book that
equate to the $7 million. He summarized his question was which should he believe, the words that are being
said or the budget that has been presented. He asked the council what success looked like for them, whether
it was simply passing a balanced budget or passing a budget that has a path to fiscal recovery of the City's
finances.
With regard to the $7 million in cuts, Ms. Dunscombe responded the budget process began will all the
approved FTE according to the ordinance, and full employment included in the budget. Directors were
asked to request everything they were proposing to do in their 2025 work plan which included professional
services, supplies, etc. That total came to $65-66 million; that budget wasn't proposed because forecasted
revenues are $52 million which would not result in a balanced budget. A budget reduction exercise followed
which resulted in a $7.5 million reduction. That is not included in the budget book, and she recognized that
was unclear when there has been reference to those numbers. She asked directors to focus on the work that
won't get done next year to assist the council and community in understanding services that will be lost by
reducing the budget.
Ms. Dunscombe continued, she accepted ownership for failing to show that math, recognizing there are in -
tune community members who wanted to be able to see that reduction whether it was FTEs, professional
services, or supplies. One of the schedules she prepared 1-2 weeks ago was a list of the positions that are
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 10
no longer unfunded. The term "unfunded" changed the way FTE was presented in the budget book. That
list shows how positions are funded, whether it is by the General Fund or an allocated position, whether the
position is currently vacant or there is a person filling the position and the salary savings for 2025 and 2026.
The next piece is to show all the other choices that staff decided not to put in the proposed budget, most of
which is professional services and reductions in supplies. IT was asked to reduce their to-dos which reduced
their internal rate to departments. She acknowledged not doing a good job laying that out for the council
and the community and it is important for them to see the proposed budget was created, knowing there have
been comments that spending was reduced by $7.5 million.
With regard to the 46 unfunded positions, instead of just eliminating positions, directors wanted to use the
term unfunded where positions are still part of the approved FTE list, but funding for those positions is not
in the proposed budget. The FTE ordinance is new to staff, and in conversations with Mr. Taraday and other
directors, she was unsure about amending that ordinance until the council decides whether the positions
would be unfunded or abrogated/eliminated. That is a decision for council to make and the council's
decision will be reflected in the ordinance. In the budget book she was trying to relay the message that the
positions are proposed to be unfunded but they are still approved in the ordinance with no budget for them.
Filling any of those unfunded positions would require a budget amendment so filling the position would be
a very clear and transparent ask and could not be done without council permission.
With regard to the recovery plan, Ms. Dunscombe said Mr. Ogonowski is correct, she has not laid out in
the strategic plan a clear definition of what the recovery plan looks like. The mayor has mentioned interest
in amending the financial policies to state financial recovery would occur over ten years rather than seven
years. She anticipated through the deliberation process, council can begin to develop that plan. She referred
to Councilmember Chen's query asking that work begin on that and make clear, defined transactions to
amend the proposed budget to show that recovery in the strategic forecast.
With regard to difficulty reconciling presentations and the budget book, Ms. Dunscombe said she worked
with the directors on the content of their presentations and Mayor Rosen clearly identified what information
should be included, but she did not verify all the numbers presented by departments. For example, the Police
Department had screenshots from the budget book, but related to other presented numbers, she would need
a specific request to validate the numbers.
Mayor Rosen commented he also owns some of this. In talking about the replenishment of reserves, he
indicated the proposal of 10 years and when that clock start. That will require council action which should
have been a footnote. With regard to the open positions, they are included in the org charts but filling those
positions would require council action. His intent in showing them in the org chart was to help the
community and council understand that council approved those positions in the past and it was work the
council felt was important. In addition he has tried to emphasize via presentations the work that was not
being done to help the community understand by making cuts, less will be done. With regard to future
projections, it is a huge moving target in which the council and community have huge roles. Staff is finding
things and presenting ideas and council has not started their deliberations and amendments.
Mayor Rosen continued, on Saturday the council will start exploring revenue opportunity which will impact
what could be done in the future to offset cuts or pay off things more quickly. The revenue opportunities
include whether to annex into the RFA; the proposed budget assumes that occurs. The budget also assumes
some money from taxes be retained for which council has signaled their approval. However both those
could change, the public or council could decide not to annex into the RFA, the council could decide not to
retain the $6 million in taxes. Even if the answer is yes to all that, there is still a revenue gap. Saturday's
meeting will include discussion regarding options related yes/no on annexing into the RFA and retaining
the $6 million so the council has a sense of the financial impact, the impact on the loan amount, potential
loan payback, and replenishment of reserves.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 11
Theresa Hutchinson, Edmonds, explained in 2016 Edmonds hired Fitch & Associates, a regional
fire/EMS consultant to vet the Snohomish County Fire and Edmonds contract. Their study found EMS calls
make up about 86% of Fire District 1's overall call volume, with fire calls at only 10%. The following
statement is taken from the Fitch report, "Given that statistic, one of the alternatives calls for moving the
fire district capability away from Station 17 all together and instead for staffing that station only with two
dedicated paramedics." That move alone could save Edmonds $1.5 million annually, money that could be
used to fund other important City services like streets or add to the City's reserves. Nothing has been done
since the 2016 report, 8 years ago, to reform the business and operations model to bring efficiencies to the
Snohomish County Fire District. She asked Mayor Rosen and/or councilmembers to speak to this.
Mayor Rosen explained the opportunity was imposed on the City when South County Fire called their
contract early. When that occurred, the council began the process of researching options. Fitch was hired
to help do an analysis; the options were to rebuild the City's own fire department, contract with another
community, the City form its own RFA via partnering with another city, annex into the RFA and renegotiate
the contract. Some of those options proved to be unviable, but council wanted to ensure decisions were not
forever and whatever decision is made allows future councils and residents to change their mind. Service
levels and how service is provided has been an ongoing question. The primary two options currently being
considered and negotiated are a contract and annexation; service levels, staffing levels, accountability for
pricing, etc. are part of those negotiations.
Bill Krepick, Woodway, said he had the same question as Ms. Hutchinson about why nothing has been
done to reformulate the delivery of fire and EMS services. A number of recent articles have shown this is
not only something raised by Fitch in 2016, but something that has been done by many EMS and fire
departments. He asked who is negotiating for the City and what their background is. He referred to the
national consulting firm Center of Public Safety and Management (CPMS), a nonprofit that does work for
municipalities and not necessarily fire departments so they have no conflict of interest. They have worked
with a city in southern California with a population of 52,000, Placentia, and have basically executed the
plan that Fitch mentioned in 2016, having separate fire and EMS departments. He asked if the City had
given up on having a city -owned department, commenting the savings that can accrue are unbelievable. He
asked the City to reconsider that and not only look at annexation or a contract. With regard to police, given
that Chief Bennett announced her retirement, she has a history with the contract police model in King
County and has said on more than one occasion how much that could save any municipality. He wondered
if the administration would temporarily slow the hiring process to understand what that could mean to the
City. He anticipated the possibility of saving $5 million via some other model, whether it is the county or
partnering with Mukilteo or Lynnwood or something else. He asked whether the administration planned to
look at something different or would hire someone to replace Police Chief Bennett.
Mayor Rosen refrained his earlier statement about the options that are available. There can absolutely be
an option to rebuild the City's own fire department. With regard to the negotiating team, it includes two
councilmembers, one of whom participated in the prior negotiations, legal counsel, himself, strategy teams
to help advise on the negotiations that include cities who recently went through negotiations, reviewing the
contracts from other cities, and a couple community members who have been following this issue incredibly
closely and providing guidance to the negotiating team were invited to participate. With regard to police,
in addition to Chief Bennett's retirement, the City has three other director openings. In a time of budget
crisis, he is looking at structure throughout the organization which includes the police department.
Consideration is being given to whether there are other ways to provide the service; one option could be
becoming a contract city, restructuring the Edmonds Police Department, considering the needs of the
community, working with others in south Snohomish County, etc. In terms of keeping the position open or
restructuring, consideration is being given to what structure makes sense in the context of providing service.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 12
That is the case for everything in the budget and all the services the City provides. If the City can do things
better, faster or cheaper, the City will course correct.
Finis Tupper, Edmonds, expressed concern with the budget, relaying he has watched the directors'
presentation and the cuts aren't enough. There has been no explanation of why the City burned through the
reserve as well as all the money received from the federal government for Covid. As an Edmonds residents
who has been involved since 1980, he anticipated the City would burn through another $12-13 million in
the biennial budget. The citizens need an explanation about where the money went before the City reaches
into their wallets and affect their ability to pay for inflation and increases in property tax, gas, food and
everything else. He said this seemed like a Dixon, Illinois, thing; where did the money go? He recommended
the City cut more than is proposed to be cut, commenting there is no pain with the proposed budget. He
accused Mayor Rosen of spending a year sitting on his hands and not taking care of the problem that he ran
on and was elected on and recommended dropping the mike.
With regard to where did it go or how did we get here, Mayor Rosen said that explanation would take more
than a couple minutes. He directed Mr. Tupper to his state of union where he started telling this story. The
City also had the most robust mid -year financial update that covered some of how did we get here and
where did it go. In addition, it was referenced in the budget presentation. A recent, very extensive article in
My Edmonds News, a transcript of a conversation, goes into additional detail. He encouraged Mr. Tupper
to visit those to get sense of where it went and he hoped that would help him understand the story. If there
are things that were not included in the story, he welcomed knowing that. With regard to the pain, directors
have described the impacts of cuts at the last several council meetings. Council is now rolling up its sleeves
to consider options for filling the gap, whether that is further cuts, different cuts, what that means to the
community, and whether they ask the community for help.
With no further public comment, Mayor Rosen closed the public hearing.
Councilmember Nand thanked the all engaged community members for coming to the meeting and showing
how democracy works and holding electeds accountable. She voted on 2022 and 2023 budgets and if she
and her fellow councilmembers made unwise decisions, they should be held accountable through the
political process. Each director makes proposals, the council approves them as the budget is their purview.
The council got the City into this mess, not the administration and the council is now trying to get out of it.
To the comment regarding pain, the council has gotten dozens of emails from families mourning the fact
that the gymnastics program is proposed to be defunded. When the council defunded the Meadowdale
Preschool last year, many families with young children lamented the fact that an affordable program that
served young families was being taken away. The council is inflicting pain which is very tragic but
necessary.
Councilmember Nand reiterated the council approves budgets, directors make proposals, projects, staffing
and decision packages they feel will enable them to do their job to the best of their ability and the council
either says yes or no via vote of the council. The public should hold the council accountable; it is the job
they signed up for. She was proud of engaged community members for holding the council accountable.
She was also very proud of the directors and staff for leading the City through an incredibly difficult and
painful period. She commended Ms. Dunscome for doing an excellent job putting forward the
administration's budget proposal. The budget is just a proposal at this point and it's very likely the council
will rip it apart. This will be a very difficult budget year, and she commended Ms. Dunscome for the level
of financial transparency and accountability that she and her team built into the budget.
Councilmember Paine relayed the council has heard from the public about their interest in the council
continuing to talk about revenue options. That should have been done at the beginning of year. She recalled
meeting with the council president earlier this year to discuss available options, an interesting conversation
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 13
because there are a lot of options. The City does not have a strong sales tax base because it is balanced with
automobile sales, about a 60/40 split. She intends to work with the council and the public to consider other
sales tax options. One of her ideas is a local marijuana and alcohol surcharge/sin tax. She looked forward
to hearing from the community about options they have seen succeed in other communities. With regard to
what is success, to her budgeting is a team sport and everyone needs to work together to make things come
together.
Councilmember Dotsch thanked the engaged citizens for participating in this process and expressed her
appreciation for the citizens who have been contacting councilmembers. With regard to the comment that
the cuts aren't enough, in looking at the budget and having run a business, the City needs to spend within
its means. One of the reasons she ran for office was the importance of the City's commercial; revenue is
not just bedrooms, having a balance is important and finding way to expand revenue beyond property
owners. Edmonds needs to be mindful not to get out over its skis and doing more than it can fiscally and
responsibly do. She supports looking at all the options, both cuts and revenue sources. She suggested having
a number associated with the revenue sources; $10,000 or $20,000 is just a piece of sand on the beach; the
council needs to think broader. With regard to police, her office was in Shoreline and she worked with the
Shoreline policing model. The community's highest priority in the recent survey was public safety; there
are a lot of people in the higher crime areas on Highway 99 asking about the City's plans. There is a balance
between the budget, costs, delivery of services and what the community wants. Edmonds provides
phenomenal service for the community, but there is a budget crisis. With regard to fire service, she is
interested in exploring all options. As a councilmember, she is not involved in the negotiations, but hopes
to hear more about it.
Council President Olson thanked the resident who mentioned revenues, agreeing that is a critical component
that the council plans to tackle at Saturday's meeting. She gave kudos to the administration who have looked
at some revenue options and have definitely made a lot of reorganization and structural addressing of
expenditures and made reductions this year. The City needs to stop the bleeding and live within its means
which sometimes means you will miss the things you used to spend money on. Just like in people's personal
lives when there are fluctuations in income, sometimes you get to do what you want to do and sometimes
you don't, and this is one of times where the City doesn't get to do everything it wants. The cuts are really
painful; councilmember know people affected by the cuts and jobs that are going away and her hearts hurts
for them and their families. She recalled another councilmember saying the city government is not a jobs
program; it is here to serve and meet the needs of the community and the community's priorities need to
direct spending.
With regard to police, Council President Olson said the City's police and merchants have made a big impact
on creating the community people enjoy in Edmonds, the art flavor and the personality, and the council and
community need to figure out what they are willing to lose in the process. That is what the mayor's long
term plan is, getting community buy -in and financing it through revenue generation as well as
reorganization to provide what the community wants. There is a way to get what the community wants, but
that requires buy -in, and if not, Edmonds will be a community that's a little different. She has been on
taskforce having conversations with RFA. She has been impressed with Mayor Rosen, City Attorney Jeff
Taraday, and Councilmember Tibbott for their enormous contributions. She negotiated contracts for a living
when she was a government contracting officer and is a certified government contracting officer and pricing
specialist.
Councilmember Tibbott relayed the council has considered sales tax revenues and other revenues. This is
the first year that sales tax revenues in Edmonds are anticipated to exceed property tax revenues. That has
been a robust growth area for the City and hopefully will continue. One of the sources of revenue has been
online sales; he has been told by experts that that source of revenue, although it has grown rapidly in the
last 3-4 years, is likely to plateau so increases in sales tax revenue will have to come from other sources or
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 14
the next generation of online sales. The council is talking about numerous revenue sources including
parking meters downtown, or a B&O tax, all things the council doesn't relish imposing. With regard to the
comment about the City structure, he has had a number of conversations with the mayor about how
departments could be restructured and he was very impressed with the mayor's creativity and flexibility
and citizens can be confident the administration is being very forthright, working with directors and staff
to develop efficiencies that have not been seen before. Cities across the state are looking for the same kind
of things. He was hopeful the budget difficulties will also result in better government. With regard to police
and fire services, the number of fire stations could be reduced, but that would also increase response times
and likely result in fewer EMTs and firefighters on scene. That would be one of the losses that the public
could expect with Edmonds' having its own fire department.
Councilmember Chen expressed his appreciation for the administration, councilmember and citizens, they
all care about Edmonds and are going through this difficult budget time together. With regard to the
inconsistencies between he budget book and the budget presentations, he anticipated it was due to time
constraints and the biennial budget which is a different approach. It is an ongoing process; assumptions
were made in developing the budget, some of which were documented in the budget book and some were
not. For example, the assumption the City will annex into the RFA was documented and shows up in the
strategic outlook, but the recovery plans are not documented which is why the forecast shows the City
insolvent in 2027. There needs to be consistency going forward to document the assumptions and the
approach.
With regard to the council's responsibility for how the City got here, Councilmember Chen agreed the
council had a role in it and should be held accountable. Personally he appreciated and supported the
administration's work 120%, but he has always said councilmembers need to maintain their independence.
When they see opportunities or different approaches, they shouldn't just rubberstamp it, they should
exercise their independent analysis and judgment and not just be a nice person. He learned that and it is part
of the reason for how the City got here. Each councilmember only has one vote. With regard to what success
looks like, to him success is in looking at revenue options and opportunities for streamline and restructuring
operations, inflation is the truth. The community needs to come together, face this together, raise revenue,
cut costs, restructure and come through it together with a balanced budget for the next two years and years
to come.
Councilmember Eck agreed with many of the councilmembers' remarks. It is an instrumental part of an
effective democracy for the public to speak. She thanked the public for attending either in person or online;
spending their evening with council and sharing their input is extremely important to the process. She
expressed appreciation for the written comments the council has received, they add to the council's thinking
and make a difference. With regard to there not being enough pain, the City already has a lower staff count
per capita and the proposed budget reduces that ratio even further. She assured the City will come out of
the budget process with pain; the cuts that have been presented are painful and the pain to the community
means some things will not get done, hard choices will have to be made. It also means some services that
residents receive will not be done as often as they would like or not at all. The council is weighing that and
taking it extremely seriously. No matter how one looks at the budget, the cuts will be painful and significant.
Having said that, she recognized the council cannot cut its way out of this. As someone who has worked on
budgets in the other part of her part of life for many years, cuts will not be enough. The word revenue can
be striking, but it doesn't mean just taxes. The council needs to look at everything and comb through it very
carefully to find the right answers. A mix of revenues and serious, painful cuts are completely warranted at
this time.
10. COUNCIL BUSINESS - CONTINUED
1. 6-MONTH O&M CONTRACT WITH ECOREMEDY, LLC
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 15
This item was removed from the agenda via action taken under Agenda Item 4.
Mayor Rosen declared a brief recess.
2. POTENTIAL ACTION ON PERMIT PROCESSING TIMELINE AND PUBLIC NOTICE
CODE AMENDMENTS TO ACHIEVE COMPLIANCE WITH MANDATES IN SB 5290
AND HB 1105 (FILE NO. AMD2024-0002)
Acting Planning Manager Mike Clugston recalled this topic was introduced to the council on September 24
and a public hearing held that evening. No public comments were received. Staff recommends council adopt
the ordinance in Attachment 6 and either use the planning board recommended language in Attachment 4
or the staff recommended language in Attachment 5. The only difference between the two versions is staff s
version retains language about refunds in SB 5290 and the planning board recommends removing that
language if it is not required since the City already meets three of the process for permit streamlining. Staff
believes it's useful to retain the references to refunds as a reminder about the possible requirement in the
future.
Council President Olson referred to her request to identify the location in the ordinance where the language
differed; she was unable to find the difference between the staff and planning board's recommendations.
Mr. Clugston relayed there are a couple places where "refund" is mentioned. There is existing language in
the code regarding refunds for an application that expires; no change is proposed to that language. That
occurs if an applicant submits an application and it does not continue, but staff has spent some time on it,
the applicant can request a refund of unspent funds for staff review time. The planning board recommended
language regarding refunds related to SB 5290 is in Attachment 4 (packet page 226); Section C on that page
be removed, compared to the staff recommended version in Attachment 5 (packet page 256), where Section
C regarding Permit Application Fee Refunds is retained.
Council President Olson asked about time criticality, would it be problematic to verify the versions and
bring approval back on the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clugston answered it would not be problematic.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT OLSON AND SECONDED TO ADOPT THE
ORDINANCE IN THE PACKET WITH THE PLANNING BOARD RECOMMENDATION
INCORPORATED ON THE NEXT AVAILABLE CONSENT AGENDA.
Councilmember Paine expressed support for the motion. She felt the council could approve it tonight as the
council has already touched it once and it doesn't need to be brought back on the Consent Agenda. She
agreed with the planning board's recommendation.
Councilmember Tibbott said while he agreed it could always be brought back, staff s recommendation to
retain the refund language may provide continuity for future changes. He asked Mr. Clugston to describe
the value of retaining that language for future use. Mr. Clugston responded sometimes language in RCWs
exists and staff doesn't necessarily know about it or they learn about it in the process of their work. With
the loss of staff knowledge over the past several years, he could see that possibly happening in the future
which is why he believes it is useful to retain the language, particularly with something as important as
refunds. The City will be reporting to Commerce every year but retaining the language is a belt and
suspender approach.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
3. GREEN BUILDING INCENTIVES CODE AMENDMENTS
Planner Tristin Sewell introduced Building Official Leif Bjorback. He reviewed:
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 16
Brief Summary
o Buildings emit most of Edmonds' local climate pollution. Residences emit over a third
o The 2020 Comprehensive Plan and 2023 Climate Action Plan identify green building
incentives as necessary to achieving our climate goals.
o These incentives would encourage development with reduced environmental impacts via
optional permit review and land use incentives
o Planning Board and Climate Protection Committee recommend
Tonight's Discussion
o Seeking direction on draft final amendments
o Presenting land use incentive alternatives addressing concerns and questions
o Modular options to simplify discussion and decision making
o No changes to permit review incentives
Baseline — Previously presented draft
o Land use incentives drawn from existing examples
■ Using language from a different zone (e.g. pitched roof bonus, adopted residential setbacks,
increased multifamily density, etc.)
■ Modeling after existing precedent in MWU and RM zones
o Balancing act — enough to encourage more "green" building
o Considering impact on staff administering code
Summary
Multifamily Residential Commercial
Business (B) Zones
(RM)Zones (C)Zones
Built Green 4-Star LEED Gold or Built Green 4-Star Multifamily
Built Green 5-Star or
better get setbacks N/A
one zone smaller
(i.e., RS-10 to RS-8)
Choose one:
• +5' in addition to the
+5' where all portions existing pitched roof
above height limit are bonus of Ch.16.30
sloped z 4-in-12 • Maximum unit density
increased one tier (i.e.,
RM-3 to RM-2.4)
1 per dwelling unit
+5' plus the 5' pitched roof
bonus for all portions sloped
at least:
3-in-12
BC
4-in-12
BN, BP
6-in42
BD5
N/A
BD1 - 4
I
+5'
(CW only)
1 per dwelling unit
1 per 500 sq. ft. leasable commercial floor area
Predominant Concerns
o Building height (esp. residential)
■ Primary dwellings
■ Detached accessory dwellings
■ Choice of height OR density for multifamily
o Residential setbacks
■ Primary dwellings
■ Detached accessory dwelling
■ No setback incentive proposed for multifamily residential
What green building can look like
o RS-6 Five Foot side setback
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 17
7th Ave S and Spruce St
• Four Alternatives
All Green -Certified Residential Development
A: No residential height incentives
B: No RS setback incentives
Green -Certified Detached Accessory Dwellings
C: No height incentives for detached accessory dwellings
D: No setback incentives for detached accessory dwellings
Mutual inclusivity: Adopting A also adopts C, and B adopts D
RED highlights changes over baseline proposed draft
• Current proposal
Primary
One district 25' 5'sloped 4-in-12
30'
smaller*
Attached ADU
Same as Same as Same as Primary
Same as
Primary Primary
Primary
2-Story DADU
Same as 24' 5'sloped 4-in-12
29'
Primary, with
10' DADU rear
setback
1-Story DADU
Same as 15' 5'sloped 4-in-1 2
20'
Primary, with 5'
DADU rear
setback
*Requires 5-Star or better. Each building certified separately.
• Alternative A
— No Residential Height Incentive
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 18
Primary One district 25' None 25'
smaller*
Attached ADU Same as Same as None Same as
Primary Primary Primary
2-Story DADU Same as 24' None 24' 41
Primary, with
10' DADU rear
setback
1-Story DADU Same as 15' None 15'
Primary, with 5'
DADU rear
setback
*Requires 5-Star or better. Each building certified separately.
• Current Code:
Multifamily Residential
Retain existing height limit:
• 25'+5' if sloped >4-in-12 = 30'total
Density one zoning district smaller
(e.g., RM-2.4 to RM-1.5)
• 5 units on 7,500 sf vs.12,000 sf
• +60% dwelling unit density
Outwardly the same as today's code
one parking space per dwelling
• Alternative B — No Residential Setback Incentive
Primary
No incentive
25'
5'sloped 4-in-12
30'
Attached ADU
Same as
Same as
Same as Primary
Same as
Primary
Primary
Primary
2-Story DADU
Same as
24'
5' sloped 4-in-12
29'
Primary, with
10' DADU rear
setback
1-Story DADU
Same as
15'
5'sloped 4-in-12
20'
Primary, with 5'
DADU rear
setback
• Alternative C — No DADU Height Incentive
Primary
One district
25'
smaller
Attached ADU
Same as
Same as
Primary
Primary
2-Story DADU
Same as
24'
Primary, with
10' DADU rear
setback
1-Story DADU
Same as
15'
Primary, with 5'
DADU rear
setback
5'sloped4-in-12 30'
Same as Primary Same as
Primary
No incentive 24'
No incentive 15'
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
October 29, 2024
Page 19
• Alternative D — No Setback Incentive for DADU
Primary One district 25'
smaller
Attached ADU Same as Same as
Primary Primary
2-Story DADU No incentive 24'
1-Story DADU No incentive 15'
• Staff recommendation
5'sloped 4-in-12 30'
Same as Primary Same as
Primary
5'sloped 4-in-12 29'
5' sloped 4-in-12 20'
o Adopt the baseline proposed amendments as the most comprehensive and effective incentive
package capable of capturing the greatest amount of certified green development
o Supported by the planning board and Mayor's Climate Protection Committee
o Provide staff any additional input on incentives not discussed
Next Steps
o Staff drafts code amendment responsive to council input
o Council action: early November
A. Approve Green Building program
B. Approve modified Green Building program
■ Using one or more presented alternative(s)
■ Using one of more presented alternative(s) and other changes
■ Using other changes
C. No action now
Councilmember Tibbott explained several councilmembers participated in a tabletop exercise at the
PSPHSP Committee meeting which helped him understand what could potentially be achieved. He is
inclined to approve both height and setback incentives for the main residence but not the ADU. The main
reason is in most cases an ADU will be added to properties and has the greatest potential for impacting
nearby properties. With the potential of a 30' ADU within the proximity of someone's backyard or privacy
area, he preferred not to have those throughout the City so it would be better not to allow the extra height
and setback reduction for an ADU.
Councilmember Tibbott referred to staff s response to his question about the BD5 area which currently
allows up to 30' heights so ADU's would be allowed up to 35' with a pitched roof. BD5 is primarily
developed with one-story historic homes and he found that in conflict with the comprehensive plan in terms
of maintaining historic structures, and the potential for 35' buildings to impact the view corridor. Staff also
responded to his question about rooftop utilities, in commercial zones there are flat roofs with utilities on
top and the building code requires screening. However he did not realize in addition to 30', there is also the
potential for 3.5' for a railing. Therefore adding a 5' incentive could result in some building in commercial
zones being 38.5' which may not have been what the public has in mind.
Councilmember Tibbott recalled asking staff about roof top utilities related to sloped roofs, and he wasn't
clear whether that was allowed. Staff referenced the building code, but that is a something that needs to be
clarified. If a heat pump can be attached to a sloped roof, he was unsure that was much of an incentive. If
rooftop utilities were inside an attic area, that would be different. He summarized he did not think these
green incentives were ready for passage tonight. He needed some clarifications and wanted to hear more
about how the height incentives would work in commercial areas.
Councilmember Eck thanked staff for taking the council's comments to heart and returning with these
alternatives. She was concerned about changing the proposed green building incentives so much that they
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do not attract builders to build green although she understood the concerns about height and setback. As
one thinks about smaller lots in the Bowl, without green incentives, she wondered if there was a lot of pent
up demand to build on those lots. Mr. Sewell answered in a lot of the already developed areas, there is
potential through the remodel pathway Built Green offers. Redevelopment is a bit more limited due to cost.
However, it is easier to hit the constraint of lot coverage maximum on smaller lots. That incentive was
removed during discussions with the planning board. People want a certain size home and are little less
sensitive to the size lot it is on.
Councilmember Eck commented with very small lots, a DADU may not be an option. Her tendency was
toward the baseline proposal based on recommendations from the Planning Department, Planning Board
and Mayor's Climate Protection Committee's. Knowing the market will self-select a lot of what will
inevitably happen, some lots in Edmonds will not be attractive to a builder.
Councilmember Nand referred to Alternative C, no DADU height incentive, and wondered if this was a
more academic options as she hasn't seen tall DADUs. The concept of adding stairs or a ladder becomes
very awkward in a constrained space. If the council were to concede something for those more concerned
about the impacts to neighbors, would that be lower hanging fruit trying to get green built incentives along
with ADUs and DADUs. Mr. Sewell responded that is a well -taken point, akin to Councilmember Eck's
point of market self-selection. Housing is a product and consumers have preferences about the produce they
buy. An envelope can only be pushed so far with certain design choices. There is also the chicken and egg
aspect, one doesn't see things because the code says you cannot have them. It's hard to know what the
result of the code change will be.
Councilmember Dotsch said she was trying to understand and balance the number of changes coming to
single family zoning due to comprehensive plan update and HB 1110. HB 1110 allows lots up to 2000
square feet; this incentive program will need to consider even smaller lots. She asked how to make that
compatible. Mr. Sewell answered that is an open question. This program was drafted with the current code
in mind. There are elements that can be transposed forward as they compatible. Having Brad Shipley back
in a term limited position, staff has already had casual discussion about what that level of compliance looks
like. He summarized these regulations are for today and not for tomorrow.
With regard to writing code, Councilmember Dotsch recognized there is limited staff and limited time. She
assumed if this code is written now, once the comprehensive plan is completed, it most likely will have to
be rewritten to be compatible with HB 1110. She was trying to understand how there could be a more
holistic approach to including green building incentives. She referred to a photograph Councilmember
Tibbott displayed at the committee meeting and sent to council, commenting the photo illustrates setbacks
getting smaller and with each having a driveway, there is no parking on the street. The photo also shows
two cars parked haphazardly on a green area in front of one of the houses because there was no street
parking. In BD5 or single family neighborhoods with cul-de-sacs or small lanes which exist all over
Edmonds due to annexing semi -rural areas, they may not be able to handle the parking reductions. To
Councilmember Eck's comment, she asked if some things could be required by code for the primary
structure and the ADU/DADU if it was something the council wanted, and not have it be an incentive. She
asked how the green incentive program matched up with the community incentive program since they both
involve heights, bulk, and parking reductions. Mr. Sewell responded he is aware of the community incentive
program but has not been involved with it.
Councilmember Paine said she liked how the options had been developed. She commented the agenda
memo describes how this won't be supportive of having green buildings. She referred to Alternative B and
the pitched roof bonus, noting the pitched roof adds to how housing fits in neighborhoods. Otherwise there
are massive, square, blocky buildings that do not always allow for light, air and peekaboo views, things that
people like. Pitched roofs also accommodate things to make a house more green and having that available
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makes it an option to include for people building a DADU. If the primary structure isn't Built Green, it may
be great to have something more affordable to operate as an ADU on the property. In Edmonds, having
generational housing is supported by cheaper ADU or DADU which includes green incentives which make
them cheaper to operate. She appreciated staff developing and explaining the alternatives; the only one she
would be comfortable adopting was no setback bonus, particularly in the smaller RS zones.
Councilmember Paine asked how green building incentives for residential and multifamily comply with
HB I I10 and other new legislation. Mr. Sewell answered it certain complies and is crafted around the
current ADU legislation, HB 1387. With regard to HB I I10, an easy switch is duplexes are counted as
single family in the residential building code and the same fleet of incentives that apply to single family
could apply to a duplex. A duplex is only one building type in the list of nine that HB 1110 requires the
City adopt six. Staff can shop around how the different building typologies are applied and how they fit in.
The Built Green certification program groups townhomes into the same scoring system as single family
residential so that is a compatibility bonus. The application and roll out of townhomes in places in Edmonds
where they perhaps haven't been before would be relatively compatible with the green building incentive
program. Whether the council applies a more multifamily model for the incentives to those levels of density,
number of dwelling units, housing typologies, etc. is open to discussion.
Councilmember Paine hoped the council would make a decision soon, recognizing minor fixes could be
made if necessary with the implementation of HB 1110. She looked forward to getting the green building
incentives program passed this year.
Council President Olson thanked staff for going above and beyond to help the council understand and found
very resourceful ways to ensure the council understood. She recalled the presentation mentioned light and
asked if that was one of the incentives from the LEED program where points are awarded for light inside a
unit. Mr. Sewell responded natural lighting is often considered an element of green building design and a
pretty standard practice such as was implemented in the Waterfront Center. He didn't know for sure that
was the case as he had not read their LEED scorecard, but having been in the space, that was something
they capitalized on.
Council President Olson commented natural light would be hard to achieve if the setbacks aren't very big
so it would be unlikely that someone would choose that LEED incentive if the structure was 5' from the
neighbor or the property line. Mr. Sewell answered that is part of choice, it is a choice how to implement
and earn points for certification. If capturing natural light is one of the lower hanging fruits, he envisioned
they would make design choices around that. If it is harder to achieve due to things on the site such as large
trees, they probably will make other design choices. The flexibility and options is what an incentive program
like this offers. It is not to force anyone to an specific thing or fleet of things, but to have options available
to make design choices based on consumer preference.
Council President Olson relayed she feels strongly she did not want to give people the option of building
that close to their neighbor. She preferred not doing any of the setback options and definitely not for
DADUs. She thanked staff for their transparency and bringing up the fact that council had already made
concessions on setbacks in DADU code. She has seen so many pictures and personally seen things that do
not feel or look good. To the extent the council has control, it should be allowed in the code. She supported
not having any incentives related to setback. If other councilmembers felt strongly about doing it for the
primary residence, she could live with that more easily than she could with the DADU. She also did not
want a height incentive for DADUs.
Council President Olson continued, there are a lot of one level single family homes that are in good
condition and aren't going anywhere or getting built up. If there's room on the property to build a DADU,
they absolutely might. There will be an incentive to build a 24' DADU instead of 15' to provide more
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square footage and higher rent or more living space. She has personally seen examples as well as a lot of
photographs of tall skinny DADUs on single family lots next to single level single family homes and a 29'
DADU (which could be achieved with green incentives) looks weird next to a 15' single family home. She
did not like seeing that and felt the council owed residents to protect the look and feel of neighborhoods.
One of the options staff displayed was do nothing, but she felt the City could at least do the expedited
processing as that is non -controversial. She preferred to wait to approve any incentives other than the
expedited processing until the comprehensive plan is finalized so the impacts of additional height in that
plan can be considered.
Councilmember Chen echoed the comments about flexibility and transparency and incorporating the
council's comments into the program. He asked if delaying the green building incentives until the
comprehensive plan is complete would delay the process for homeowners who want to build a DADU but
are waiting for the green incentive program. Mr. Sewell answered it is certainly a possibility. In the case of
ADUs, whether they have the option of green incentives may not drastically change the number that are
built or the timeline in which they are developed. It will change the manner in which they developed;
whether they are certified Built Green or not. The demand for them is latent and independent of the
availability of the green building incentives. There may be some that won't be built, but he did not think it
was a major contributing factor based on his experience and what he is hearing from the community.
Councilmember Chen asked if implementing a green building incentive program will increase or decrease
permits and the City's income. Mr. Sewell answered staff has kept fees out of this proposal, there are no
financial incentives. There will be staff time involved with an expedited process, a tighter window in which
to respond to applicants and provide reviews. He was unsure if a financial analysis had been done regarding
that. Mr. Bjorback said it didn't seem appreciable or worthy of dramatic concern. Mr. Sewell said as far as
property value revenue, that math has not been done and would be interesting to learn more about.
Councilmember Chen commented from a construction perspective, green incentives increase the cost of
construction so the value of the product would also increase.
Councilmember Eck said the reason for this program is to reach the City's climate goals. She believed green
incentives were a vital part of that since greenhouse gas emissions largely come from buildings. Shoreline
adopted green incentives with no dramatic changes overnight. It was her understanding developers who
utilize green incentives have been primarily multifamily. When looking at it from a financial standpoint,
developers are looking at scale. She envisioned Edmonds would have a similar experience. She did not
want to whittle down the incentives too much more because the City has climate goals to meet. Not all
developers will want to utilize green building incentives and those that do are likely to be developing
multifamily. Mr. Sewell agreed, multifamily is where the meat of the residential aspect of the program lives,
where there is more to offer and more to gain.
Councilmember Paine relayed her understanding this complies with the ADU legislation, observing the
incentives might change a little with the comprehensive plan depending on height. This is a great time to
put this program in place so there isn't another moving piece with all the other development codes that need
to be revised with the adoption of the comprehensive plan. This is the third or fourth time the council has
considered this program and she urged councilmembers to adopt it. She emphasized there is a climate crisis;
the southeast has had terrible storms. A recent Washington Post article said the cost for the impacts of
climate change is extraordinary and going up at a parabolic rate. The things that can be done now to support
the climate are super important. There might be some ADU development which she anticipated would help
families and having the green incentives would be great for the planet. She urged councilmembers to get
this done this year as it is compliant with HB 1337.
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Councilmember Dotsch referred to capturing natural light, pointing out if someone builds a structure higher
than their neighbor or cuts down trees or vegetation, that could provide natural light. She worried about
what was incentivized and the byproduct. If a bonus is offered for height, development will occur up to that
limit and the neighboring home, which may not have the financial wherewithal to do anything, often ends
up selling their house or lose their light. This is a great foundation, a green building incentives program is
in the existing comprehensive plan, but she did not think delaying a few months would have a dramatic
impact. She referred to a Conservation PRD which is allowed on smaller lots and asked if that could be
applied to ADUs so an ADU could be sited on a lot to preserve trees. Mr. Sewell answered that is the same
intent as the setback incentives. The conservation subdivision process allows lots to allocate portions of the
land for conservation of significant natural resources which are set aside and in exchange, the lot minimum
is eliminated, the density remains the same, setbacks are reduced and there are no particulars about lot width
which provides much more flexibility in the lot layout. It can lend itself to unique property development in
an attempt to leave a portion untouched. The setback incentives attempt to mimic that to an extent.
Councilmember Dotsch relayed she was inclined to wait to adopt this program until after the comprehensive
plan and compliance with HB 1110 are complete.
11. EXECUTIVE SESSION: PENDING OR POTENTIAL LITIGATION. RCW 42.30.110(1)(I)
At 9:10 pm, the Council convened in executive session to discuss pending or potential litigation per RCW
42.30.110(1)(i) for a period of 20 minutes.
Executive session extension
At 9:30 pm, Mayor Rosen announced that the executive session would be extended to 9:35 pm.
12. RECONVENE IN OPEN SESSION
The meeting reconvened at 9:35 pm.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further business, the Council meeting was adjourned at 9:35 pm.
SCOTT PASSEY; CKCLERK
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