2002-10-10 Historic Preservation Commission MinutesHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
October 10, 2002
1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting of the Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission was called to order at 3:35 p.m. in the 31 Floor Fourtner
Room of City Hall, 121 — 51 Avenue North.
PRESENT
ABSENT
Darrell Marmion, Chair Chuck LeWarne
Gregg Arnold, Vice Chair Ed Baker
Stephen Waite (arrived at 3:57 p.m.)
Barbara Kindness
Michael Plunkett
2. READING/APPROVAL OF MINUTES
STAFF PRESENT
Rob Chave, Planning Division Manager
Star Campbell, Assistant Planner
Karin Noyes, Recorder
COMMISSIONER ARNOLD MOVED TO ADOPT THE MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 12, 2002 AS PRESENTED.
COMMISSIONER KINDNESS SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
3. ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGENDA
No changes were made to the proposed agenda.
4. REQUESTS FROM THE AUDIENCE
There was no one in the audience to address the Commission during this portion of the meeting.
5. PUBLIC HEARINGS
There were no public hearings scheduled on the agenda.
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Status of Certified Local Government (CLG) Application Packet
Ms. Campbell advised that the CLG packet is still missing a few items —the inventory forms and finalization of the cover
letter to the Mayor. Also, they still need to collect the statements of qualification from some of the Commissioners.
Chair Marmion said that he has some examples of inventory forms and submittals from the State, but he would like more
information about exactly what is required for the application process. He suggested that, at this point, the best they can do is
come up with an amateur inventory form. Ms. Campbell said that the Commission needs to provide some examples to
illustrate that the Commission is making an active effort to inventory properties. The inventory forms need to be filled out to
provide information on specific sites.
Commissioner Arnold said that he recently spoke with Ms. Duvall about this issue, and she indicated that the State does not
really conduct an extensive review of the application packets, and no one has ever been turned down. Commissioner Arnold
suggested that perhaps the Commission is "making a mountain out of a molehill" with this process. They need to gather the
information to the best of their ability and then send it in to the State. Ms. Duvall indicated that it is important to include
resumes from the two professional members of the Commission: Commissioners LeWarne and Waite. For the remainder of
the Commission, a simple declaration that they are interested in working on the Historic Preservation Commission would
suffice. That being the case, Ms. Campbell said that they now only need the qualification statement from Commissioner
Baker.
Chair Marmion agreed that it is important for the Commission to show that they have taken the first step by providing a
simple inventory form. They could change the heading on the sample and adopt it as the method they will use. Ms.
Campbell agreed that anything that shows that the Commission is looking at specific properties would be appropriate. Mr.
Chave suggested that they could narrow down the assessor's list to the structures built before 1940 and send this along with
the sample form and a narrative identifying that the Commission will tackle the oldest ones first.
Mr. Chave pointed out that the worse thing that could happen if the Commission were to follow this approach would be for
the State to send back a request for completed inventory forms. He agreed with Commissioner Arnold that the application
packet should be sent as soon as possible.
Chair Marmion suggested that it would be easy to obtain information on a few sites fairly quickly such as the museum and
the log cabin. He said he would work with the museum representatives and others to put together two to three inventory
items by Monday.
Ms. Campbell referred the Commission to the copy of the cover letter that was provided by Commissioner LeWarne for
attachment to the packet. She pointed out that the Commission still needs to review the letter that was drafted to the Mayor
from the Commission.
Councilmember Plunkett inquired if the Chair now feels that all of the necessary items have been covered so that the
application can finally be submitted to the State. He expressed his extreme disappointment that after two months, they are
still not able to complete the packet. Chair Marmion indicated, again, that he would work to provide three sample inventory
forms, and Ms. Campbell would be responsible for obtaining a statement of qualifications from Commissioner Baker.
Mr. Chave suggested that the Commission should talk about strategies for presenting the document to the Mayor. He
explained that the Mayor would be submitting a budget proposal to the City Council that would likely represent a 10 to 11
percent cut in staff time. He questioned whether this would have any impact on the application to the State.
Councilmember Plunkett said he has been considering the budget issue, as well. He suggested that when the Mayor sees the
application packet, he will be concerned about the costs associated with its implementation. He said that perhaps the Chair of
the Commission should meet with the Mayor and help him understand that this is a revenue neutral program and that the
existing staff will satisfy the State requirements. It needs to be clear that no additional costs would be associated with the
application.
Mr. Chave agreed that there are no additional costs associated with the application, but staff time is required at this time to
aid the Commission. If the City were to lose a planner, this could mean that a staff person would no longer be able to sit in
on the Commission meetings and provide their administrative support. Councilmember Plunkett agreed that staff is a
concern, but if the application is submitted right now, it will be considered based on the staffing available at this time.
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 2
Mr. Chave agreed with Councilmember Plunkett that it would be appropriate for the Chair of the Commission to meet with
the Mayor to sort this issue out. He also suggested that they talk with Ms. Duvall to find out what type of staffing
commitment the State is looking for. Chair Marmion indicated his willingness to meet with the Mayor, but suggested that
perhaps Commissioner LeWarne or another Commission would like to participate, as well.
Commissioner Kindness pointed out two typographical errors in the letter to the Mayor. First the correct zip code is 98020.
In addition, the last sentence of the first paragraph should state "... and approve it with your signature."
b. Review of Subcommittee Tasks, Priorities and Members
Chair Marmion distributed an updated version of the list of tasks he put together for each of the four subcommittees. He said
he used the minutes from August and September to move the items around as discussed. He noted that he added a new
priority task to the Administrative Subcommittee's assignments. He also changed several references to indicate that the
subcommittees would report to the Commission and not to the City Council. He referred to the last page of the document,
which illustrates those tasks that would require the full Commission's consideration. Chair Marmion said the purpose of the
document is to provide a working tool to guide the Commissioners through the various tasks.
Commissioner Waite arrived at the meeting at 3:57 p.m.
C. Rules and Procedures
Ms. Campbell noted that sometime back, the Commission directed staff to create a document that would outline the rules and
procedures for the Historic Preservation Commission. Although the draft document was reviewed by the Commission, it was
never officially adopted.
Councilmember Plunkett suggested that the Commissioners be allowed to review the document further over the next month
and be prepared to adopt it at the next meeting. Ms. Campbell recalled that at a previous meeting she was directed by the
Commission to make specific changes to the document and return it for approval at the last meeting. While the Commission
did not ever get around to reviewing the updated draft document, the changes were made as requested by the Commission.
Mr. Chave suggested that if the Commissioners are going to reviewing the document over the next month, it is important that
they pay particular attention to the attendance section.
The Commission agreed to defer their decision until the next meeting.
7. SUBCOMMITTEE REPORTS
a. Administrative Subcommittee Report
Councilmember Plunkett said that Commissioner Waite made an excellent point a few months ago about improving the
visibility of historic preservation in the Comprehensive Plan. As a result of this discussion, the Administrative Subcommittee
was assigned the task of reviewing the entire Comprehensive Plan and the references that were provided by staff to determine
whether or not amendments are necessary to increase the awareness of historical preservation. After their review, the
Administrative Subcommittee has concluded, similar to the conclusions voiced by Ms. Campbell at the last meeting, that
there is sufficient reference to historic preservation in the Comprehensive Plan at this time. The only suggestion they have
would be to take the references that already exist and formalize them by making specific reference to the Historic
Preservation Commission instead of just referencing historic preservation in general. For example, wherever the words
"historic preservation policies" are used, the reference could be changed to "the policies of the Edmonds Historic
Preservation Commission." He briefly reviewed a few more examples of where changes could be made to the
Comprehensive Plan.
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 3
Councilmember Plunkett inquired if the Commission would be willing to give the Administrative Subcommittee the authority
to pursue amendments to the Comprehensive Plan to reference the "Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission" in
appropriate places. He noted that any proposed amendment for 2003 would need to be submitted to the City by December
31, 2002. Mr. Chave explained that the proposed amendments would be reviewed by the Planning Board and a public
hearing would be held before the Board would make a recommendation to the City Council. He noted that it is possible to
change or add additional items to the amendment application up until the December 31 deadline.
COMMISSIONER KINDNESS MOVED THAT THE COMMISSION GIVE THE ADMINISTRATIVE SUBCOMMITTEE
THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE APPLICATION TO THE CITY FOR THE APPROPRIATE AMENDMENTS TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WITHOUT BRINGING THEM BEFORE THE COMMISSION FOR ADDITIONAL REVIEW.
COMMISSIONER WAITE SECONDED THE MOTION.
Commissioner Arnold said that while he supports the motion, he does not want to assume that all of the necessary
Comprehensive Plan amendments have been dealt with. For example, there is nothing in the Comprehensive Plan that
indicates how history fits in.
Commissioner Waite explained that the Commission is generally regarded as having the ability to make recommendations to
other City bodies, but their authority stops there. Mr. Chave agreed. Commissioner Waite said that while the Commission is
too young to get more involved at this point, if they want to do something more than just make recommendations to other
bodies in the future, changes to the Comprehensive Plan would be required. At this point, there is a definition of what the
Commission's role is. It is important that they understand this role and decide whether or not they want to expand it in the
future.
Councilmember Plunkett said that the City Council would have to adopt an ordinance to change what is in place right now if
the role of the Commission is going to be changed. He said he does not feel the Commission has the authority to go beyond
the bounds of the current ordinance.
Chair Marmion said it is his understanding that the Planning Board has to review all changes to the Comprehensive Plan.
Other changes that are recommended by the Commission must be approved by the City Council.
Commissioner Waite questioned how strong they want the references in the Comprehensive Plan to be. Chair Marmion said
that as he read through the Comprehensive Plan he found many references to historic preservation. But, although they seem
numerous when accumulate onto one list, they are spread throughout the lengthy document. As a result, they do not appear
to be as strong.
Commissioner Waite suggested that it might be possible for the Commission to propose some revisions that would change
the tone of the Comprehensive Plan. However, he agreed that other changes must be adopted by ordinance by the City
Council.
Councilmember Plunkett added that an application needs to be submitted by the end of the year for the proposed
amendments. As many of the Commissioners find ways to highlight historic preservation more throughout the document,
they would be able submit additional amendments to the original list. He concluded that the Administrative Subcommittee
read through the document and reviewed the list of references provided by the staff. They recommend that the document be
amended by inserting the term "Edmonds Historic Preservation Committee" as awareness, but other changes could be added,
as well.
Commissioner Arnold suggested that all the Commissioners should review the Comprehensive Plan and provide their
recommendations for amendments. Councilmember Plunkett did not disagree, but suggested that these additional changes
could be submitted separately from what they have ready now. The amendments could all be combined into one application
at the end of the year. Mr. Chave said changes to the application could take place until the application deadline of December
31.
101138ls)WOM' i1%ililihM,1RUV[ilib`1M
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 4
b. Communications Subcommittee Report
Commissioner Kindness reported that the Communications Subcommittee has been thinking about options for raising public
awareness over the past month. Chair Marmion suggested that one way to involve the people who have historic properties
and increase the public's awareness of historical preservation would be to provide them with an opportunity to purchase a
plaque to put on properties to identify their historic significance. While they have not researched this option yet, the intent is
that the owners of the properties would purchase the signs, themselves.
Commissioner Kindness said another option would be to hold a quarterly or monthly meeting for the public. This would be
an opportunity for the Commission to inform the public about programs they are working on, and the public would have an
opportunity to provide input, as well. These meetings could be advertised in the newspapers and perhaps members of the
Edmonds -South Snohomish County Historical Society could be invited to participate.
Commissioner Waite agreed that a sign program could be an effective awareness tool. However, he questioned how this
would fit in with the existing sign program that is operated by the Edmonds -South Snohomish County Historical Society.
Would people have the ability to place two signs on their property —one from the City of Edmonds and one from Snohomish
County?
Chair Marmion replied that that the Edmonds -South Snohomish County Historical Society does not provide plaques for all
properties that are identified on their register. They have a selective program to nominate 15 to 20 sites that can be
recognized each year. The idea for Edmonds would be less effort, but still could generate some interest in historic
preservation.
Commissioner Kindness suggested that because the signs would be related to tourism, perhaps the Commission could obtain
grant funding to support this program from the Hotel/Motel Tax fund. Commissioner Arnold agreed that the Commission
should research the option of obtaining hotel/motel tax funds to pay for the plaques rather than requiring the property owners
to pay this expense.
Mr. Chave suggested that if the plaques are to be official signs, they should be tied to only those properties that are registered
on the list of historic properties. Commissioner Arnold agreed that they should encourage the signs to be used for people on
the City's register of historic sites. However, if a property owner already has a sign from the Edmonds -South Snohomish
County Historical Society, adding a new sign from the City of Edmonds would probably not be necessary.
Councilmember Plunkett said he likes the idea of a sign program, and he encouraged the Communications Subcommittee to
research the issue more and obtain information related to costs, as well. He suggested that they should contact Roger Oliver
or Commissioner LeWarne to find out what the museum's costs are for these types of signs and who they get the plaques
from. Either of these two individuals could provide this information quickly. He agreed that it would be better if the
Commission could find a way to provide the signs to the property owners free of charge.
The Commission continued to discuss the option of holding a public awareness meeting. They particularly discussed
possible dates and ways to encourage the public to attend. They also discussed how they could stimulate the interest of those
citizens who do attend the meeting such as providing a slide show of historic sites in Edmonds.
Commissioner Arnold said that while he supports the idea of having a public meeting, he seems to get hung up on the details
of how that meeting would work.
Commissioner Kindness said she would investigate this opportunity further to determine cost estimates for renting space and
the possibility of providing some type of public brochure or pamphlet, etc. However, she said her most significant concern is
how to get the word out to the public and how to spark enough interest that the public would attend. She suggested that they
need to come up with a good marketing plan to advertise the meetings.
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 5
Commissioner Waite suggested that perhaps the advertisement could be mailed to all of those property owners that are on the
list of properties that are over 50 years old. Chair Marmion suggested that the entire community needs to be invited to the
public meetings, and not just those that own historic property.
Commissioner Kindness said it would be helpful to the Communications Subcommittee if the Commission were to identify
an approximate date for the meeting to occur. Then she could begin to check on meeting locations and other options.
Chair Marmion suggested that one way to get people to come to the meeting would be to invite people to provide their
opinions about whether they want condominiums or if they want to preserve the existing structures. If the community wants
to preserve historic structures, they should voice this to the City Council.
Councilmember Plunkett agreed that this type of invitation would gain the interest of the public, but implementing this type
of concept would also require rezoning. If the Commission is going to be advocates for rezoning commercial properties to
residential, they will end up radicalizing themselves and defeat their whole purpose. He reminded the Commission about the
cartoon that was printed in the local newspaper when the Historic Preservation Commission was established. The cartoon
gave the impression that the Commission would have the power to prevent condos from being built. But actually, the
Commission does not have the authority to do this. He added that when the ordinance establishing the Commission was
written, they were cautious about scaring people by demanding and requiring changes. Chair Marmion pointed out that the
Commission has not generated any interest from the community thus far.
Commissioner Kindness suggested that perhaps the public meeting could be held in February or March after the holidays are
over. Commissioner Arnold agreed that one of the Commission's goals should be to find ways to entice people to attend the
meeting. He suggested that perhaps the Commission could identify the structures they feel are worth preserving and then
visit each one personally to invite the owner to the meeting.
Councilmember Plunkett said that once the City obtains CLG status and begins their inventory of historic sites, their future
activities would be able to generate news stories to attract the attention of the public. Ms. Campbell agreed that, hopefully,
by February or March, the Commission would have obtained CLG status and an inventory would be underway.
Councilmember Plunkett said that once the professional inventory is complete, the Commission could hold a public meeting
to reveal its findings.
Councilmember Plunkett said that it is really the pride of the community that will have the most impact on historic
preservation because there are not a lot significant, tangible incentives that can be offered. He noted that Snohomish is proud
of their community and wants to preserve the structures. Bothell is the same. Perhaps if the Commission could tie in the
meeting with the display of the official professional inventory, they would be able to get a significant number of citizens to
attend. Once property owners find out that they are on the list of historic places, they may express more of an interest to join.
Commissioner Arnold said much of the discussion of historic places centers around the downtown area, but many of the sites
are residential homes outside of the downtown. He emphasized that there are some people who enjoy living in a house that
has historical significance. And even though it has a high resale value, they want to preserve the structure instead of
demolishing it to make room for new development. He suggested that perhaps it all comes down to the sense of identity that
exists in the City. Historic preservation is more about pride than economic return. Therefore, the Commission should
concentrate on getting people excited to become a part of the Edmonds Historic Register.
Commissioner Arnold suggested that there are ways to make everyone happy. Some people think old is garbage and new is
better, and they will not want to preserve sites. But that is only a small percentage of the property owners. Some will
preserve historic sites regardless of the economic costs. But the majority are in the middle and the Commission needs to
figure out a way to make it affordable for these people to participate in the program.
Commissioner Arnold pointed out that there are statements in the Comprehensive Plan related to maintaining the character of
the City and continuing to be the gem of Puget Sound. The Commission needs to consider how the history of the downtown
fits into the sense of place that currently exists in Edmonds.
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 6
Commissioner Kindness recalled that at one time the Mayor mentioned that owners of residential property along the
waterfront would be more inclined to maintain their historic structures if the City were to offer some type of incentive. She
inquired if part of the Commission's charge is to make recommendations to the City Council so that the ordinance can be
changed to allow this to happen.
Councilmember Plunkett advised that the Commission must prove themselves to the community before they start
implementing the more specific incentives. However, he agreed that Sunset Avenue might well be an area they could
consider for a possible historic district.
C. Historic Register/Inventory Subcommittee
Chair Marmion reported that he would be working on the inventory forms this next month for inclusion in the CLG
application package.
Commissioner Arnold inquired how long it would take to get the designation after the application is submitted.
Councilmember Plunkett suggested that it would probably take at least 30 days. Ms. Campbell said the procedures manual
illustrates the time frame necessary for review of the application. She suggested that while the Commission waits to obtain
CLG status, they could research possible consultants for the professional inventory services.
d. Incentives Subcommittee
Commissioner Arnold reported that the Incentives Subcommittee tried to look into more details on some of the incentive
programs that are available for consideration. They particularly reviewed the special valuation tax incentive by visiting the
web site www.oahp.wa.gov, which is the site for the State Office of Archeology and Historic Preservation. He reported that
they were able to find documents in the tax valuation file that provide all of the details necessary for this option. The
Committee also reviewed a web page that provided a brief breakdown on the Federal 20 percent tax credit incentive.
Councilmember Plunkett said he was under the impression, after reading the minutes from the last meeting, that the
Incentives Subcommittee was going to come back to the Commission with some incentives they could consider to increase
public awareness. He recalled that at the last meeting the Commission agreed that the most important incentives right now
are those related to public awareness. The Communications Subcommittee was also going to come to the meeting with some
ideas to increase public awareness, as well.
Chair Marmion recalled that six categories of incentives were discussed at the last meeting, along with a discussion of what
could be done right now. However, no new task was added to the Incentives Subcommittee's task list.
The Commission discussed options for increasing community awareness. Commissioner Kindness recalled that at the last
meeting, the Commission discussed the option of seeking ideas from a representative at the State Office of Archeology and
Historic Preservation since the idea of historic preservation is a new concept for the City of Edmonds. She agreed with
Councilmember Plunkett that once they get the professional inventory and the CLG designation they will be able to gain
more public awareness.
Chair Marmion summarized that the Commission has discussed two options to increase public awareness: information in the
newspaper and a public forum.
Councilmember Plunkett inquired when these two tasks would be assigned to a subcommittee to come up with additional
ideas. Commissioner Arnold inquired if the objective is to develop the sense of pride that people have for historic
preservation or just make the public aware of the Commission's activities. Either way, the Commission decided that this
would the role of the Communications Subcommittee.
Commissioner Kindness suggested that another option for increasing public awareness would be for a Commission
representative to make a presentation at each of the service clubs in the community. Perhaps they could create some type of
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 7
slide show or brochure to hand out as part of their presentation. The Commission agreed that this would be an excellent way
to increase public awareness, and that this task could be assigned to the Communications Subcommittee, as well.
8. NEW BUSINESS
a. Press Releases
Councilmember Plunkett inquired why the press releases have not been published to date. Commissioner Kindness reported
that the first press release would be in the paper within the next few weeks. She explained that she had wanted to put in a
little statement informing the public that the Commission had made application for CLG status, and then explain what that
means. Since this hasn't been accomplished yet, she has postponed the press release.
Commissioner Arnold suggested that it might be effective to ask the newspaper to publish pictures of historic structures that
could be maintained, as well as pictures of some that have been demolished. They could provide a short narrative under each
of the photographs. These could accompany a monthly newspaper column explaining what the Commission is doing. The
Commission agreed.
Commissioner Kindness said that before the next meeting she would approach the local newspapers to see if they could
publish a column for the Commission on a regular basis. She said she would also put together a list of the local service
organizations and find out when the Commission can make their presentations to each.
Commissioner Arnold said that he would like to see an example of the articles that the Communications Subcommittee will
be running in the local papers for the next three months at the next Commission meeting. Councilmember Plunkett agreed,
and suggested that the Communications Subcommittee could present their media plans for the remainder of the year to the
Commission at their next meeting.
Ms. Campbell advised that staff would like to be able to review the press releases before they are published if they are to be
City expenditures. However, if the Commission is submitting the press releases on their own, they would not require City
staff review.
Councilmember Plunkett suggested that perhaps the Commission could consider publishing some type of inexpensive
brochure that could be handed out to the service clubs that they visit.
9. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Mr. Chave reminded the Commission that the Historic Preservation Staff and Commissioner Training Seminar is coming up
on Friday.
Councilmember Plunkett recalled that at the last meeting, the Administrative Subcommittee took on the task of inventorying
the possible grant opportunities. He distributed copies of the three possible grant opportunities that were identified by
Commissioner Kindness. He said that all three of the grants indicate that they offer grant funding for both consultants and
communications projects. He suggested that the Commission needs to decide how they want to proceed with grant
applications. He noted that writing grant applications can be very time consuming.
Commissioner Kindness suggested that perhaps the Commission should seek outside volunteers to help them write the grant
applications. Another option would be to hire a consultant. Councilmember Plunkett agreed that someone needs to be
brought on line who knows about grants and can give them helpful information on how to proceed.
Commissioner Arnold suggested that staff contact Ms. Duvall in the State Office of Archeology and Historic Preservation to
obtain additional information on grants. He said that before the Commission can write a grant application, they need to
identify specifically what they want to use the grant funding for. If money is available for marketing, perhaps they could
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 8
obtain a grant that would allow them to hire someone to perform this service. He noted that hired help usually can perform
the service in a much shorter time period than that of a volunteer who has other commitments.
Commissioner Kindness said she has an opportunity to take a grant writing class through Edmonds Community College, and
she also knows people who have expertise in grant writing. The Commission agreed that they need to identify what projects
they need money for and then find someone who is trained in grant writing to help them write the grant applications.
Commissioner Arnold said he would love to see the Commission obtain a grant for marketing and then hire someone to
provide their service. The Commission agreed that they need to apply for grants for marketing and inventory. They also
agreed that they need more information about how they can write these grant applications or hire someone who can.
The Commission agreed that Commissioner Kindness should invite her acquaintance to come before the Commission and
provide further direction regarding the grant writing process.
10. REVIEW OF NEXT MEETING PROPOSED AGENDA
There were no comments related to the proposed agenda for the next meeting.
11. HISTORIC PRESERVATION CHAIR COMMENTS
Chair Marmion provided no additional comments during this portion of the meeting.
12. HISTORIC PRESERVATION MEMBER COMMENTS
Ms. Campbell distributed a list of places in Edmonds that are identified on the State register. She noted that the list was
provided by Commissioner LeWarne.
Commissioner Waite suggested that when citizens who own historic structures come into the Planning Department, staff
could attempt to obtain feedback regarding historic preservation and report back to the Commission. Ms. Campbell said she
has mentioned historic preservation to a few applicants at the counter, but no interest has been expressed yet.
13. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to address, the Commission adjourned at 5:25 p.m.
Historic Preservation Commission Minutes
October 10, 2002 Page 9