Loading...
2002-11-14 Historic Preservation Commission MinutesHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES November 14, 2002 1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The meeting of the Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission was called to order at 3:30 p.m. in the 31 Floor Fourtner Room of City Hall, 121 — 51 Avenue North. PRESENT ABSENT STAFF PRESENT Darrell Marmion, Chair Stephen Waite (excused) Star Campbell, Assistant Planner Gregg Arnold, Vice Chair Rob Chave, Planning Manager Chuck LeWarne Barbara Kindness Michael Plunkett Ed Baker 2. READING/APPROVAL OF MINUTES COMMISSIONER LEWARNE MOVED TO ADOPT THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 10, 2002 AS AMENDED. COMMISSIONER ARNOLD SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 3. ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGENDA Council Member Plunkett recalled that the agenda was also supposed to include a discussion regarding grant writing. Commissioner Kindness said she is prepared to discuss this later on the agenda. 4. REQUESTS FROM THE AUDIENCE There was no one in the audience who desired to address the Commission during this portion of the meeting. 5. PUBLIC HEARINGS There were no public hearings scheduled on the agenda. 6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS a. Cost of Edmonds -South Snohomish County Historical Society Plaques Commissioner LeWarne recalled that at the last meeting, the Commissioners questioned regarding the cost of the plaques that the Edmonds -South Snohomish County Historical Society has placed around the community for the past fifteen years. He said this has been his responsibility for the past ten years. The plaques are approximately $350 each, depending upon the number of characters and letters. He noted that none of the recent plaques have included a picture of the building, but a few of the older ones do have pictures. The plaques are made by Ballard Brass in Ballard, and the size is 12" x 18". The City has generously mounted the signs that are placed throughout Edmonds. Commissioner LeWarne said their experience with Ballard Brass has been wonderful. b. Certified Local Government ADDlication Chair Marmion updated the Commissioners that the Certified Local Government (CLG) application was submitted in October. However, there are some questions that need to be discussed as part of the subcommittee reports. C. Rules and Procedures Document Chair Marmion advised that Ms. Duvall from the State Office of Archeology and Historic Preservation informed the staff that the rules and procedures document that was provided in the CLG application was insufficient. Ms. Campbell said that Mr. Chave has been working on this document, using a sample from Ritzville and catering it to meet the City's needs. The revisions will be fairly minor, and he recommends that the Commissioners carefully review the document over the next several weeks. She said Mr. Chave noted that the document is quite thorough and detailed, and the Commission will have to live by the rules that are created until they are amended. Staff will also be reviewing the document carefully because it identifies fairly detailed staff involvement, as well. Council Member Plunkett inquired if the one -page document that the Commission previously received would be replaced by the document that is now before them. Chair Marmion explained that, although the one -page rules and procedures document was never approved by the Commission, it was included in the CLG application. The State indicated that the level of detail in the document was inadequate to meet their standards. Council Member Plunkett inquired why the rules and procedures were forwarded to the State before they were approved by the Commission. Ms. Campbell clarified that the original CLG packet did not include the draft rules and procedures document. Upon the request of the State, a copy of the draft one -page rules and procedures document was provided. The State responded that the draft document was not adequate to meet their requirements. Council Member Plunkett said it appears that some of the things included in the new rules and procedures draft document are also included in the ordinance that was adopted to establish the Historic Preservation Commission. He inquired if staff anticipates that there would be some conflicts between the two documents. Ms. Campbell said she has read through the proposed document and agreed that some things are covered in the ordinance already. However, most of them are an elaboration of the ordinance, itself. Commissioner Arnold inquired as to exactly what the State is looking for. Ms. Campbell said she did not talk to the State representative, Ms. Duvall, directly. She did receive an e-mail that she forwarded on to each of the Commissioners. In the e- mail, Ms. Duvall thoroughly explained what the State is looking for. Therefore, Ms. Campbell said she did not feel that further clarification from staff was necessary. Chair Marmion recalled that the Commission had decided previously to keep the rules and procedures simple and to elaborate on things that were not already identified in the ordinance. They agreed that they did not want to intentionally repeat anything that was in the ordinance because the Commissioners felt this could result in conflicts in the future. However, Ms. Duvall was expecting a very detailed and self-contained set of rules and procedures. The two types are fundamentally different. Council Member Plunkett inquired if Ms. Duvall received a copy of the ordinance that was approved by the City Council to establish the Historic Preservation Commission. Chair Marmion answered affirmatively. He explained that the feedback from the State was not related to the ordinance. It only stated that the rules and procedures were inadequate. The State is seeking a stand-alone document to outline and control how the Commission will conduct their business. Commissioner Arnold inquired if there is any chance that Ms. Duvall did not put the ordinance and the draft rules and procedures together when she reviewed the packet. Commissioner Kindness pointed out that the model document being used by staff at this time Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 2 is from Ritzville, which is a jurisdiction that has obtained certified local government status. The sample was provided by the State as an illustration of the type of document that is required. Chair Marmion suggested that he be allowed to contact Ms. Duvall by phone to make sure that the Commission has to have stand alone rules and procedures even if they duplicate what is already in the ordinance. If this is a requirement, the Commission will have to create a different document. However, he cautioned that creating and reviewing this new draft document would take just as much time as the ordinance, itself, did. Council Member Plunkett noted that a lot of the items covered in the model rules and procedures document are things the Commission has planned to work on in the future. He said his understanding was that the application was supposed to show that the Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission was serious and ready to move forward, not that they had accomplished all of their objectives. He agreed that Chair Marmion should contact the State for further clarification. Commissioner Arnold said that in looking through the proposed new rules and procedures document, it appears that Section 1 deals primarily with the ordinance. It is important to find out whether or not they have to repeat things that are already addressed in the ordinance. Also, they need to know if all of the other things that are covered in the model ordinance must be met before the City can become a CLG. Chair Marmion said these are the questions he will be asking Ms. Duvall when he contacts her. Commissioner LeWarne inquired if the final rules and procedures document could be approved by the Commission or if it would require City Council or Mayor approval. Council Member Plunkett said this would all depend upon the answer Chair Marmion receives from the State. If the ordinances has to be changed, the issue would have to go before the City Council for approval. Commissioner LeWarne said that he would assume that rather than change the ordinance, they would incorporate the ordinance into the rules and procedures document. If that is the case, he questioned if the document could be approved by the Commission. Council Member Plunkett suggested that this would depend upon how much of the model document the Commission chooses to incorporate into their rules and procedures document. There are things in the model that the Commission does not have the authority to approve at this time without changing the ordinance. Chair Marmion agreed that if there is anything in the model that goes beyond the intent of the ordinance, they would have to bring the document before the Council for consideration. But as long as the rules and procedures meet the general guidelines of the ordinance, the Commission would have the ability to approve the document. Council Member Plunkett said that his assumption was that the rules and procedures document was supposed to identify how the Commission would operate as a Board. The model rules and procedures go beyond what the Commission can decide by themselves. Commissioner Arnold said it appears that the State is looking for the rules and procedures the Commission will use to do what they have the power to do. If they drop out Section 1, and put some thought into the other sections, they could end up with the type of document they need, eventually. Council Member Plunkett agreed that all of the sections would eventually be needed, but the Commission has not progressed to this point yet. Commissioner Arnold expressed his concern about the amount of time it would take the Commission to get things done if they only meet once a month. He questioned if it is possible, after Chair Marmion talks with Ms. Duvall, to e-mail the Commissioners with further clarification. If, indeed, the Commission must provide a rules and procedures document similar to the model provided, perhaps they should immediately decide upon the next step. This would enable them to have several of the steps done before the next meeting rather than waiting until next time to decide what the next step should be. Chair Marmion noted that this was originally a task of the Administrative Subcommittee. The intent of the subcommittees is to working on tasks and provide input to the other Commissioners. He suggested that they continue to operate in this manner. He said that after he talks with Ms. Duvall, he would communicate her response to the other Commissioners, in particular the Administrative Subcommittee. The Commission discussed the fact that the code states that the Commission would be responsible to develop the methods and procedures for accomplishing the tasks identified in the ordinance. They agreed that it would take the Commission at least a year of hard work to develop all of the methods and procedures. They noted it was the Commission's intent to work Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 3 on these rules and procedures. However, their understanding was that they could become a CLG as long as they could show that they are diligently working in that direction. The Commission reviewed the following alternatives. First, they could be required to provide a document that covers every single thing the Commission is empowered to do, which would basically repeat the ordinance. Second, they could be required to provide a document that covers implementation rules and procedures that are not specified already in the ordinance. The third alternative would be a basic document similar to the one -page draft that was presented to the Commission previously. They also have the option of creating a provisional set of rules and procedures, showing that there are still some blanks that will be filled in at a later date. 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Administrative Subcommittee Report Council Member Plunkett reported that the Administrative Subcommittee has been considering possible 2003 Comprehensive Plan amendments. He recalled that he forwarded some proposed amendments to the staff that would highlight Historic Preservation in the Comprehensive Plan. He recalled that Commissioner Arnold suggested that if other Commissioners had additional amendment ideas, they could submit those, as well. Since the Administrative Subcommittee's proposed amendments have already been submitted, the additional ideas should be provided to Ms. Campbell for inclusion in the 2003 process. Chair Marmion inquired how much Commission time would be required next year to consider the Comprehensive Plan amendments. Council Member Plunkett said he does not anticipate that a lot of Commission time would be required for this project. Staff will take all of the Comprehensive Plan ideas that have come forward, put them in a set format, and forward them to the Planning Board for review. There could be a time when the Commission may need to address the Planning Board to support their proposed amendments. The objective is for all of the proposed amendments to be forwarded to the City Council for consideration by the end of 2003. Commissioner Kindness noted that proposed amendments for consideration in 2003 are due by December 31, 2002. Commissioner Arnold said that in their Comprehensive Plan, the State has a goal to identify and encourage the preservation of lands, sites, and structures that have historic or ecological significant. He said it seems, that in reviewing the City's Comprehensive Plan, there is nothing in the plan that clearly states this goal. He suggested this would be important. The Comprehensive Plan does not mention the City's involvement with historic preservation. Chair Marmion agreed, and said that is the purpose of the proposed revisions. Council Member Plunkett further explained that the amendments put forth by the Administrative Subcommittee just highlight the references to historical preservation by replacing it with the words "Historical Preservation Commission." Commissioner Arnold suggested that the Commission should also propose an amendment to add language to the Comprehensive Plan to specifically call out the goal of identifying and encouraging the preservation of lands, sites and structures that have historical or ecological significance. Or can the Commission assume that because this is a State goal, it is also part of the City's Comprehensive Plan? Ms. Campbell said her assumption is that the State goals have been adopted by reference. She added that when the City staff reviews projects and proposals, they refer to the Comprehensive Plan when the development code requires them to do so. The goals and policies of the Comprehensive Plan must be considered. Chave agreed that the State goal was adopted into the Comprehensive Plan by reference. The State goals, in particular, apply to all jurisdictions, and have been used as part of the framework of the City's Comprehensive Plan. Council Member Plunkett questioned whether it would be appropriate to make this a specific policy as opposed to a reference. Commissioner Arnold suggested that the Commissioners should each review the Comprehensive Plan and resolves these issues. If the people in Edmonds want to put an emphasis on historic preservation, changes to the Comprehensive Plan should be made to emphasize this. He specifically referenced the historic preservation language on Pages 26 and 47. He noted that Page 47 provides policies to accomplish the following identified goals: • Identification and maintenance of historic sites. Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 4 • Dedication and maintenance of possible archeological sites. • Identification and maintenance of architectural structures. He suggested that this section does not provide sufficient strength to be effective in encouraging historic preservation in the City. He questioned whether or not the Commission wants to add language in this section regarding the maintenance of historic buildings, as well. Chair Marmion recalled that when the Commission reviewed the list of Comprehensive Plan references to historic preservation that was provided by staff, it looked pretty good. But when he reads through the entire Comprehensive Plan, he does not get the impression that historic preservation is important to the City. Council Member Plunkett agreed, and said that once the amendments are placed in the Comprehensive Plan referencing the Historic Preservation Commission, the language should appear stronger. Commissioner Arnold said he does not want to see the historical structures that currently exist be eliminated as a result of ignorance. He questioned if they should at least start a debate amongst the citizens about whether they want the Comprehensive Plan to start going that direction or not. Council Member Plunkett said he does not feel the Commission is ready to start creating a debate amongst the community yet. However, he agreed that what Commissioner Arnold is suggesting should be the Commission's goal. Chair Marmion said it is important that the Comprehensive Plan set the tone and provide direction for the people that are making the laws and ordinances. They could propose an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan right now without changing an ordinance. The Comprehensive Plan could have language stating that the City should do anything they can to preserve any building over 50 years old. Commissioner Arnold said his desire is for historic preservation to be referenced as strongly in the Comprehensive Plan as pedestrian access, etc.. At the same time, he agreed that they should probably not start a public debate on this issue before they get further along in their process. Commissioner Arnold suggested adding an additional goal on Page 47 to encourage identification and preservation of historic sites. Right now, the word preservation is not even in the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Chave suggested that it is hard to review the exerts on the list without knowing the context of the surrounding text in the Comprehensive Plan. For instance, he pointed out that the Community Culture and Urban Design Element encompasses a wide variety of things. The specific goal of encouraging rehabilitation and restoration of older buildings in order to retain a variety of building styles and continuity in the City is a pretty strong statement and indicates to him that historic preservation is a significant part of the future development of the City. Mr. Chave explained that the Comprehensive Plan covers everything that goes on in the City. He said the two pages of references to historic preservation out of 60 is enough to provide backing for the Commission to go forward. He agreed that the idea of establishing a track record before making more significant changes to the Comprehensive Plan is a good idea. b. Communications Subcommittee Report Commissioner Kindness distributed an outline of the Communication Subcommittee's activities. The two areas that were identified at the last meeting for the Communications Subcommittee to address were public awareness and grant funding. She advised that she has a meeting scheduled with the editor and publisher of THE EDMONDSILYNNWOOD ENTERPRISE. They are very interested in having regular input regarding the Commission's activities. She said she has not been able to meet with the editor of THE EDMONDSIMUKILTEO BEACON yet. The papers come out today, and the first news release should be in both. She provided a copy of the news release that she submitted. It was reviewed by Ms. Campbell and Chair Marmion prior to submittal. Also, there is a special section that comes out every Wednesday in THE SEATTLE TIMES related to Snohomish County. Hopefully, the first news release will be included in that section, as well. In addition, it may be possible for the Commission to get air time on KSAR, a local FM station, on a regular basis. Commissioner Kindness said she was asked to prepare a three-month preview of what would be placed in the Commission's news releases. The first introduced the Commission. The second release will talk about rekindling civic pride as it relates to history. The third release will invite the public to call or write to get on the mailing list to receive information from the Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 5 Commission. The public will also be invited to the Commission meetings, and the Commissioners will advertise that they are available to speak to any of the civic organizations. Commissioner Kindness suggested that a brochure be written and produced by February 1, 2003. Also, a public forum at the Wade James Theater or the Edmonds Theater could be held quarterly, perhaps on the first Saturday of the month. If they add food to the forum, they may be able to develop more interest. She noted that Edmonds' 103 birthday is August 11, 2003. It could be effective for the Commission's activities to somehow tie into this celebration. Commissioner Kindness recalled that the Commission talked about the possibility of putting together a slide show or some other type of presentation that could be used when making presentations to organizations. However, funding is needed for the brochure, presentation, etc. She spoke with a couple of grant writers. One does it as a volunteer for The Burn Foundation, but she does not consider herself all that successful. She also spoke with Pat Burgsman, who has been very successful in grant writing. She currently works for The Little Red School House. She did a grant for the housing authority on a one-time basis, as well as a grant for The Cocoon House in Everett. Her current hourly fee is $45 per hour. Ms. Burgsman indicated that before she could start working with the Commission, they need to identify their goals, objectives and time frames. She also suggested that the Commission develop as many local relationships as they can to help on the smaller scale, such as the local Hubbard Foundation. Commissioner Arnold inquired about how long it would take Ms. Burgsman to write a grant. Commissioner Kindness answered that this would depend upon how organized the Commission is in laying out their goals and objectives. Ms. Burgsman did not indicate any set amount of hours that would be required. Commissioner LeWarne said that, if the Commission can afford it, it would be a very good idea to obtain the services of a professional grant writer. Grant writing requires a significant amount of skill that most of the Commissioners do not have at this time. Commissioner LeWarne said he received an announcement of the agenda for the new Snohomish County Historical Commission and the news release that they sent out. Perhaps the Commission could send out this type of notice for their meetings, except they may not have money to pay for the postage. Commissioner Arnold said one way to accomplish their presentations to local service groups, etc. is to create a video. He noted that an Eagle Scout put together a pretty good quality presentation after interviewing senior members of the community. Obtaining a grant for a professional filmmaker to put together a video to present to the service groups and local schools would be more meaningful than if the Commissioners were to make the presentations themselves. Council Member Plunkett recalled that the video that was produced by the Eagle Scout is for sale within the community. Council Member Plunkett commended the Communications Subcommittee for their great start in presenting a plan to increase the visibility of historic preservation in the community. He agreed that the Commission should first have a clear picture of the direction they want to go before they hire a professional grant writer. However, it might help them determine their goal if the grant writer could provide an overview of grant writing in general. Commissioner LeWarne said that a grant writer would also know what applications would be worthwhile for the Commission to apply for. Some of the grants are very specific and would not apply to the Commission's activities at all. There is no point in wasting their time making these applications. He agreed that a professional grant writer should be invited to provide an overview on grant writing before the Commission. Perhaps they could even invite a representative from a local organization that offers grant funding to talk to the Commission about how to write grants. Commissioner Kindness pointed out that Ms. Burgsman indicated that the more support the Commission has from local organizations, the more clout she would have to go to larger organizations with grant requests. Council Member Plunkett clarified that the two projects the Commission will need grant funding for are communications and inventory. Chair Marmion noted that they have a plan for creating a brochure and they have talked about the need for grant funding, but they have not identified the amount of money they will need. The Commission agreed and asked Commissioner Kindness to research the estimated cost of creating and printing a brochure. Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 6 Commissioner Arnold inquired who the target audience would be for the brochure and what information would the Commission want to include. Council Member Plunkett recalled that the intended purpose of the brochure would be to increase the community's awareness of what the Commission is trying to do. Commissioner Arnold suggested this is a tactic, but not a goal. He asked specifically what they are trying to get the community to do. Are they trying to get people to attend the public forums or to vote for a particular action, or what? Council Member Plunkett said it is important to build support within the community for the Commission's efforts because as the historical preservation efforts are stepped up, the Commission will likely meet with some opposition. Commissioner Arnold suggested that rather than a brochure, the Commission should find grant funding that would enable them to do something that would get the community inspired to preserve the history of the town. Council Member Plunkett pointed out that the content of the brochure could speak to developing support for the value of historic preservation. Commissioner Arnold again stated that he did not feel a brochure that is copied on nice paper would inspire the community. Commissioner Arnold said that before going forward with the creation of a brochure, they should consider what they are trying to accomplish in the long term. Then they should focus their efforts on a few things that will really make a difference. He would like the Commission to research opportunities for grants so that they can afford to create some quality communication materials. Commissioner Kindness said that in addition to researching the cost of doing a brochure, she would also research the cost of preparing a video presentation. However, she felt they should start by providing a good informational piece. If they advertise in the paper inviting the public to seek more information regarding the Historic Preservation Commission activities, then the Commission can work on the content further. Commissioner Arnold said the video would likely cost between $5,000 and $10,000 to produce, which is not a significant amount, but could have a major impact in the community. The Commission agreed that they need to obtain a grant writer at some point to help them secure grants for public awareness and communications, as well as the inventory process. Commissioner LeWarne expressed his concern that the Commission is not ready to put out a brochure asking the community to make application for their property to be placed on the historic register. So far, the brochure would have to be information only about the existence of the Commission and identify some of the buildings that have historic significance in the City. The Commission agreed that Commissioner Kindness should arrange for the professional grant writer to attend the next meeting and provide direction to the Commission. C. Historic Register Subcommittee Report Chair Marmion reported that when he and Ms. Campbell attending the State Historic Preservation Staff and Commissioner Training Course, a lot of his questions regarding the creation of the historic register and inventory were answered. The State has actually developed an access database software program for doing inventories. The State is compiling all of their existing paper records and putting them into the database. They have set up a system where the individual CLG's or historic districts can have copies of the software and create their own databases. The State would add the local databases to their own database. This software is available to the Commission for free, and once they get to the point of inputting records and creating the register, they will request a copy. COMMISSIONER ARNOLD MOVED TO EXTEND THE MEETING FOR 15 MINUTES. COMMISSIONER KINDNESS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. d. Incentives Subcommittee Report Commissioner Arnold distributed copies of a reprint from the newspaper about some people in Seattle who are making money by finding old houses and moving them. His guess is that the biggest problem they will have in Edmonds is that the houses are located in zones where they are going to get torn down, so they will have to move a lot of them. Ms. Campbell said that she copied the handouts that she and Chair Marmion received at the State Historic Preservation Staff and Commissioner Training Course regarding special valuation. She recalled that when the Advisory Committee was Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 7 meeting, they talked about the special valuation tax program. With this program, when someone restores a home it can be taxed at its pre -restoration value for up to ten years. This results in significantly lower taxes. She said the Commission has talked about this option on several occasions, but at the training course, they discussed the program in detail. Chair Marmion said they gave an example of a building in Seattle that is being restored. The property it is located on is worth something like $7 million and the building is assessed at $1,000. The owner did seismic upgrades and remodeled the inside of the building, at a cost of about $4 million. Now their property taxes are based on a valuation of $3 million instead of $7 million. Whatever eligible dollars are put into restoring a historic structure can be deducted from the total assessment of the property. Chair Marmion particularly referred to the house that was just remodeled at Second and Edmonds Street. If the property owners can show that the work they did qualifies under the State's guidelines, the cost of the remodel would be subtracted from the tax assessment. He said that because the house is already on the State Register, perhaps the Commission could approach the owners of that property and give them some guidance for doing this under the State requirements now so that it can be shown as an example of the types of benefits that exist. Another structure that could have taken advantage of this opportunity is the old Edmonds Theater. Chair Marmion said another thing that was mentioned at the training course is that assessors do not like the special valuation program and a lot of people resist the program as well because they feel it results in a loss of tax revenue. He said it is important for the Commission to understand the details and significance of the program so they are prepared to answer the public's questions. 8. HISTORIC PRESERVATION CHAIR COMMENTS a. State Historic Preservation Staff and Commissioner Trainin Ms. Campbell reported that there were several documents she picked up as handouts for the Commission. There was one presentation on post World War II architecture, and the fact that a lot of these buildings are coming up for nomination because of their age. These buildings are not normally considered wonderful historic houses. Chair Marmion added that the presenter pointed out that the charter of historic preservation commissions is to preserve examples of history and not to dictate tastes. It is important that samples of this type of architecture remain. 9. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS There were no administrative reports provided by staff during this portion of the meeting. 10. REVIEW OF NEXT MEETING PROPOSED AGENDA Chair Marmion said the agenda for the next meeting is up in the air, depending upon the feedback they receive from the State representative regarding the rules and procedure document. Commissioner Arnold suggested that under each of the subcommittee reports listed on the agenda it would be helpful to track the specific issues that the subcommittees are supposed to report on. Commissioner Arnold said he would like to get a better understanding of how the Commission will identify what should and should not be preserved in the City. He said he is concerned about the structures that are being lost as time goes by. 11. HISTORIC PRESERVATION MEMBER COMMENTS None of the Commissioners provided additional comments during this portion of the meeting. 12. ADJOURNMENT Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 8 There being no further business to address, the Commission adjourned at 5:15 p.m. Historic Preservation Commission Minutes November 14, 2002 Page 9