2003-09-11 Historic Preservation Commission MinutesHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
September 11, 2003
1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting of the Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission was called to order at 3:30 p.m. in the 3rd Floor Conference
Room of City Hall, 121 — 5t1i Avenue North.
PRESENT ABSENT
Darrell Marmion, Chair Chuck LeWarne
Gregg Arnold, Vice Chair
Stephen Waite
Ed Baker
Barbara Kindness
Michael Plunkett
2. ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGENDA
STAFF PRESENT
Star Campbell, Assistant Planner
Rob Chave, Planning Division Manager
Chair Marmion noted that, for the first time, a time frame has been assigned to each agenda item in an attempt to keep the
meeting a little more orderly. He said that, over the next few months, the tone of the Commission meetings will have to
change as they get into designation reviews and other business of that type, which will take up more time. He especially
noted that they will have to either condense the subcommittee reports significantly, or they will have to consider the option of
holding a work session as a second meeting each month. He requested that staff provide feedback as to whether or not a
second work meeting would have to be an advertised public meeting
Mr. Chave said that if the Commission were to hold an additional meeting each month at which there is at least a quorum of
Commissioners, the meeting would have to be advertised, and the public would need to be invited. However, the individual
subcommittees could meet together without advertising the meeting as long as there is not a quorum of Commissioners
present.
Chair Marmion said it is important that the subcommittees find some way to get more work done outside of the monthly
Commission meetings.
No changes were made to the proposed agenda.
3. READING/APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Chair Marmion advised that there was no tape recording of the July meeting. Therefore, no formal minutes could be
prepared. He asked that each of the Commissioners provide their notes from that meeting to Ms. Campbell, who will
compile some type of summary minutes. Mr. Chave said he would use the agenda to summarize what took place at the
meeting.
The Commission postponed approval of the August 14, 2003 minutes until the next meeting.
4. REQUESTS FROM THE AUDIENCE
There was no one present in the audience.
5. DESIGN REVIEWS
There were no design reviews scheduled on the agenda.
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
There was no unfinished business scheduled on the agenda.
7. SUBCOMMITTEE REPORTS
a. Administrative Subcommittee Report
Council Member Plunkett said the Administrative Subcommittee's significant task was to prepare a grant application for the
Lodging Tax Advisory Committee, and a copy of the application is available for the Commissioners to review. Ms.
Campbell noted that she e-mailed both Commissioner LeWarne and Council Member Plunkett asking if they wanted her to
distribute a copy of the application to all Commissioners, but she did not hear back from them. Council Member Plunkett
said the intent was that this meeting would be the last chance for the Commission to review the application before it is
submitted. Ms. Campbell clarified that Commissioner LeWarne has already submitted the application to the Lodging Tax
Advisory Committee. Council Member Plunkett recalled that the application was supposed to come before the Commission
for one final review. However, he said he has no concerns about the application, as written.
Chair Marmion noted that the unapproved minutes of the August 14t' meeting indicate that the Commission authorized
Commissioner LeWarne to complete the final draft of the grant application and submit it as soon as possible. He said the
Commission agreed that they did not want to hold up the submittal for a whole month, but they did want to see a copy of the
final draft that was submitted. He asked that staff provide each Commissioner with a copy of the final application.
Ms. Campbell said her recollection is that Commissioner LeWarne was going to e-mail a copy of the final application to each
of the Commissioners. She suggested that the Commissioners check their e-mail to see if they received this document. None
of the Commissioners recalled receiving the document.
b. Communications Subcommittee Report
Commissioner Arnold said the Communications Subcommittee was assigned two projects. One was the brochure. He
distributed an example of a brochure that could accomplish two goals at the same time. The draft brochure was titled,
"Edmonds, A Sense of History and Pride." The brochure would talk about the importance of history, as well as show
pictures of historic properties in Edmonds. It could also issue a call for property owners to come forward to get their
properties registered. This same brochure could be adapted into a walking tour map by changing some of the text. He
clarified that the pictures would all stay the same.
Commissioner Arnold said that before the Communications Subcommittee can move forward on the copy, they need
direction on the content that should be included. For example, in order to prepare the walking tour text, they need to have a
list of the historic structures within the City. He suggested that perhaps he work with Chair Marmion to complete this task.
They also need to have more information regarding the incentives program before they can complete the text of the brochure.
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Council Member Plunkett inquired if the Commission decided they wanted to do a walking tour brochure. Commissioner
Arnold said his interpretation of the Commission's direction at the last meeting was that they wanted to do a walking tour
brochure using hotel/motel tax grant funding. This type of brochure would promote tourism as required for the grant
funding. The other brochure would be more specific to show what citizens and property owners can do to protect the City's
historic heritage.
Mr. Chave said that, ideally, it would be good to coordinate the publication of the brochure with the historic survey project,
since the survey will provide the narrative and background necessary to produce the brochure. Commissioner Arnold agreed.
He said the goal is to get as much of the preparatory work as possible done now so that when the inventory and historic
survey are completed, they can move forward on the project.
Mr. Chave suggested that if the Commission receives a hotel/motel grant, they should try and hold off on spending the money
until after the middle of 2004 in order to coordinate with the completion of the historic survey. He suggested that if the
Commission provides a presentation before the Lodging Tax Advisory Committee, it would be important to inform them that
the Commission is leveraging other grant funds to combine with the hotel/motel tax grant in order to get a better product.
The historic survey grant could contribute to the narrative and content of the brochure.
Commissioner Arnold said the Communications Subcommittee was also charged with making a recommendation for using
the Public Television Station, Channel 21. However, they have not yet been able to put together a proposal.
C. Historic Register Subcommittee Report
Chair Marmion said he spoke with staff earlier in the week about the Commission's general procedures and some of the
hurdles they will have get through in making sure their historic register application is proper. He noted that the City has
received an application, and the Commission will hold a designation review hearing at their October meeting. He said that he
and staff are well on their way to "working out the bugs" in the process.
Chair Marmion said he prepared a nomination form for the Carnegie Library and the Edmonds Museum. With the exception
of one photo, the documents are ready to be submitted. He said he would get the information to staff as soon as possible. It
may be possible to schedule a designation review hearing for this application at the October meeting, as well. If not, the
review hearing will be scheduled on the November agenda. He noted that the narrative description of the building, itself, was
taken from the Snohomish County Register of Historical Places. They also had a very good narrative on the historic
significance, which he used for the application.
Chair Marmion said he has been working with staff to understand the procedural requirements for the designation review
hearings. Ms. Campbell said she prepared information for the Commission's review, but she does not intend too get to far
into discussions before the Commission has had an opportunity to review the information provided. Chair Marmion advised
that Ms. Campbell wrote a two -page summary of the by-laws and rules that have been put in place. She is attempting to put
together a guide to help the Commission digest all of the information in order to set the tone and rules for the first hearing.
Chair Marmion advised that the Commission's web page provides a link to the original presentation and windshield survey
that was put together previously.
Council Member Plunkett asked if the Carnegie Library application is ready to be submitted to staff. Chair Marmion
answered affirmatively and said he would be the applicant. Council Member Plunkett inquired if Chair Marmion would be
allowed to vote on the application if he is also the applicant. Mr. Chave said staff would check with the City Attorney, but if
the Commissioner who submitted the application does not have a personal economic interest in it, he/she may be able to vote
on the issue. Council Member Plunkett expressed his view that because the action would be legislative, a Commissioner
should be able to both submit and vote on applications of this nature.
Commissioner Kindness arrived at the meeting at about 3:50 p.m.
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b. Continued Communications Subcommittee Report
Commissioner Kindness said she has been working on a tourism brochure. She provided a copy of the mock up design to
each of the Commissioners and explained that the document would be a self -mailing, tri-fold style. She called the brochure
"A thumbnail Visitors Guide to Edmonds' Historic Past." A map was provided in the center, and then she identified six sites
within the downtown walking area such as the Museum and the Centennial Plaza. She said none of the City's published
brochures allude to the Centennial Plaza, even though a time capsule was put in to celebrate the 100' Anniversary of
Edmonds. The brochure would also identify the Log Cabin, Fifth Avenue, Brackett's Landing and Old Mill Town. She said
the brochure would focus on tourism, and also talk briefly about the Commission and how they are helping to preserve
Edmonds' historic past.
Commissioner Kindness said there are other sites that could be included on the brochure, but she was trying to focus on sites
that provide tours and information to visitors. Chair Marmion suggested that the Communications Subcommittee move
forward using the draft provided by Commissioner Kindness combined with Commissioner Arnold's ideas.
Council Member Plunkett said it is a fairly large task to come up with a full plan for Channel 21. Perhaps they could at least
find out if they can get on at all. Commissioner Arnold said the Communications Subcommittee has already determined that
the Commission can get on the Channel 21 station. There are no rules or regulations in place. If the Commission has
something worthwhile to run, they will be allowed to do so. The Commission just needs to decide what they want to put on.
Council Member Plunkett referred to the power point presentation that was prepared by the Advisory Committee. This
presentation was included on the Commission's web page and provides a reasonably good review of the purpose of the
Commission. Perhaps they should put the power point presentation on Channel 21. He asked that the Communications
Subcommittee consider this option. Chair Marmion and Commissioner Kindness agreed to research this option further and
provide a report at the next meeting. Commissioner Arnold said that Edmonds Community College is a great resource for
technical help from students.
d. Incentives Subcommittee Report
Commissioner Waite said that last month he and Council Member Plunkett met with Duane Bowman and the Building
Official to discuss the possibility of the City adopting specific building codes that address historic structures. Currently, the
City only administers the Uniform Building Code. There are some provisions in the building code that allow the City to look
for other means to address renovation of historic structures. But in conversations with other municipalities, he learned that
they freely access specific codes such as the Uniform Code for Building Conservation and the Washington State Historic
Code to specifically address historic preservation and renovation. Edmonds' code does not currently allow this.
Commissioner Waite explained that the Uniform Building Code is somewhat generic and does not specifically address
historic structures. The same people who wrote the Uniform Building Code have also written other codes that particularly
address older structures. He emphasized that these other codes are still written, as is the Uniform Building Code, solely for
the public's health, safety and welfare. But they recognize the practicalities of older structures. Other municipalities have
been able to utilize these other codes successfully, and the Incentives Subcommittee believes this would be one way of
offering an incentive to the building owners. Right now, their hands are somewhat tied by the Uniform Building Code.
Commissioner Arnold inquired if implementation of the additional building codes would require adoption by the City
Council. Council Member Plunkett said it would, but the work associated with adoption might be fairly minimal. The
Incentives Subcommittee is hoping that staff will be able to present the City Council with a historic rehabilitation code that
would provide a greater incentive for private historic preservation. Commissioner Waite noted that ECDC Chapter 19
already states that the City shall adopt the Uniform Building Code 1997 Edition. All that needs to be added is language to
adopt the additional code related to historic structures.
Commissioner Arnold inquired if a property owner would have to be on the historic register in order to use the additional
code. Commissioner Waite said that the code the Incentives Subcommittee is most familiar with could only be utilized in
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buildings that have been recognized by a public entity as a historic structure. Council Member Plunkett said it would be his
preference that a property must be identified on the register in order to utilize the codes.
Commissioner Waite said he would be meeting with the Building Official in the near future to discuss the issue further. He
also encouraged the Commissioners to provide their comments and suggestions. He said he would report on his progress at
the next meeting.
Commissioner Baker inquired if it would be better for the City to identify only one historic building code that could be used
by owners of property identified on the historic register rather than numerous different historic building codes.
Commissioner Waite said that, right now, the current building code allows alternative methods, materials and designs, but it
is left up to the Building Official to make the final decision.
Chair Marmion suggested that perhaps they need to be more specific when making a request to change the code to identify
that the other codes would only apply to properties on the register. Commissioner Waite said that if the ordinance was made
more specific, it would be easier for owners of historic property to understand. He agreed that the ordinance should make it
clear that it only applies to properties that are identified on the historic register.
Chair Marmion summarized that at the last meeting, the Incentives Subcommittee was charged with presenting the concept to
the City Council with a request that they refer it to the Planning Board for further review and study. Now they are talking
about proposing a code change to implement the concept. Council Member Plunkett said he was under the mistaken
impression that the issue would have to go before the Planning Board for review. Once it got to the Planning Board, there
would be plenty of time for the Commission to work with them to massage the proposal. However, Mr. Bowman explained
that this change could go straight to the City Council. Mr. Chave agreed that the Planning Board does not, typically, review
building code issues. Council Member Plunkett said that since they are now talking about going straight to the City Council,
perhaps the Commission needs to discuss the issue in greater detail to prepare a proper ordinance for the City Council's
consideration. At this time, the Incentives Subcommittee is waiting for feedback from the staff. If the staff supports the idea,
the Commission could hold further discussions regarding a possible ordinance to forward to the City Council.
Commissioner Waite and Council Member Plunkett said they would meet with staff sometime during the month and bring
the issue back to the Commission at their next meeting.
Chair Marmion noted that at the last meeting, the Commission took action to authorize the Incentives Subcommittee to go
before the City Council with a request that rehabilitation codes be forwarded to the Planning Board for their review and
study. He questioned if it would be necessary for the Commission to rescind that action. Council Member Plunkett said he
does not feel additional action is necessary at this time.
Commissioner Waite said the Incentives Subcommittee also met with Mr. Bowman and the Building Official to discuss the
incentive of "permit time." They seemed agreeable that when an owner of historic property comes in with an application, the
process could be classified as "tenant improvement plan review," depending on the scope of work. He said he was pleased to
hear that they are willing to assist historic property owners in speeding up the permit process in some cases because of the
benefit that would be provided to the public.
Commissioner Waite said that once the Incentives Subcommittee has completed their research on incentives, they would
bring the issue back to the Commission for further direction. The Commission could then decide how important each
incentive is. Chair Marmion inquired regarding the process the Commission would use to present ordinances to the
Commission. Council Member Plunkett said that if the Commission wants to move forward with a code change, they should
direct the Council Representative to initiate some action to move forward on the implementation of a Commission
recommendation in the form of an ordinance. Mr. Chave said another option would be for the Commission to take their
action item to the Development and Community Services Committee. If the Committee accepts the Commission's action
item, they will direct the City Attorney to draft an ordinance for the full City Council's consideration. The Commission
would then have an opportunity to present the ordinance to the City Council with the support of the committee.
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Commissioner Waite said it is important to address the necessary code changes now because it could take several months to
actually implement them. It is important to have these incentives available when property owners start to make application
for historic designation.
Commissioner Waite said he is not having a lot of success with the tax and open space incentives and getting in contact with
Julie Koler. He suggested that perhaps Commissioner LeWarne or another Commissioner who has an interest in taxation,
etc. could provide some assistance. He said he would ask Commissioner LeWarne to contact Julie Koler for him.
8. NEW BUSINESS
Council Member Plunkett referred to the minutes from the Snohomish County Preservation Society. They are dealing with
the same things the Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission is dealing with. They have had people come before them
asking them to save buildings, and they are reporting back that there is a process that must be followed. They just received
their Certified Local Government Status.
9. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Ms. Campbell recalled that at the last meeting there was some concern expressed over the process for the upcoming
designation review for a property that was recently nominated. It was suggested that perhaps a mock application and review
should be staged. In reviewing the issue further, she said she realized that the answers are all found in the existing City
ordinances. She referred to the guide she prepared to identify the things that are already in the ordinance. In addition, it lists
some resources to help the Commission through their review. She urged the Commissioners to read through the information
and provide their comments and suggestions.
Council Member Plunkett inquired if the standards that an application must meet are identified. Ms. Campbell said the
standards and nomination criteria have been included. Council Member Plunkett clarified that as the Commission performs
the designation review, they must determine if an application meets at least one of the criteria. Ms. Campbell explained that
according to the nomination criteria, any building, structure, site, object or district may be designated for inclusion in the
Edmonds Register of Historic Places if it is significantly associated with the history, architecture, engineering or cultural
heritage of the community; if it has integrity; is at least 50 years old, or is of lesser age and has exceptional importance; and
if it falls in at least one of the eleven categories listed.
Council Member Plunkett summarized that it is up to each of the Commissioners to determine whether or not an application
meets the standards and nomination criteria. If the property can meet the criteria and standards, the Commission is
encumbered to accept it as eligible regardless of any political situation.
Commissioner Kindness noted that the procedures indicate that, at the meeting, the chair or designated person shall offer
preliminary statements concerning the application. She questioned if the chair would be allowed time to prepare his
statement. Ms. Campbell said the Commission previously discussed that they would receive the staff report for the
application about a week before the meeting. Council Member Plunkett inquired if the staff would make a recommendation.
If so, would the Commission be obligated to follow staff s recommendation. Ms. Campbell said staff would make some sort
of recommendation in the staff report, but the Commission would not be obligated to follow staff s recommendation.
The Commission discussed who would offer the preliminary statement at the next meeting. They agreed that the staff would
provide the preliminary statement at the October hearing.
Council Member Plunkett inquired if Chair Marmion wished to chair the meeting, as well as be a voting member. Chair
Marmion said he does not have a problem with chairing the meeting and voting, as well.
Mr. Chave suggested that it would be important, at the next meeting, to summarize the review process for the applicant and
public's clear understanding. Chair Marmion agreed.
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Mr. Chave pointed out that the grant period starts October 1, 2003. He would provide the Commissioners with time sheets so
that they can keep track of any time they spend related to the grant during the next month. This includes meeting time,
research, tasks, etc. It is critical to keep track of the time on the time sheets, since this will be part of the City's matching
funds for the grant.
10. REVIEW OF NEXT MEETING PROPOSED
Chair Marmion said the Commission would follow the same format for their next meeting, except they will conduct their first
designation review.
11. HISTORIC PRESERVATION CHAIR COMMENTS
Chair Marmion said he feels it helps to designate a time frame for each of the agenda discussions. However, going forward
will be even more difficult because they have a lot of things they want to work on. Once they start holding reviews, it will be
more difficult to get the other working projects done. They will need to take more initiative off-line. He emphasized that the
Commission still has an obligation to find good incentives and other things that will help protect the historic resources in the
City. The agenda will likely get a lot tougher as they move forward.
12. HISTORIC PRESERVATION MEMBER COMMENTS
Commissioner Plunkett said he is looking forward to the first real designation review hearing before the Commission. He
assumes that the applicant, Ms. Hanby, and some of the property owners will be present. Chair Marmion noted that
surrounding property owners will also be notified of the hearing. He cautioned that the Commissioners must remember that
the issue is the property, and not some of the other political aspects they may or may not hear. Chair Marmion said he would
draft some opening statements to make the intent of the hearing clear. Council Member Plunkett said it is also important to
for the Commission to have a clear understanding as to what they do and do not have an obligation to do and what tests and
standards they have to meet. They may receive requests from the public to take actions that are somewhat irrelevant.
Mr. Chave said that, normally prior to a hearing, the Commission would arrange for an on -site inspection. He suggested that,
since this is a church that is open to the public, the Commissioners should take an opportunity to visit the site at their
convenience rather than try to arrange a visit with the property owner. Because this is a legislative action, the Commissioners
are free to discuss the application with anyone.
Commissioner Kindness suggested that perhaps the Commission's web site could answer frequently asked questions. There
are some things that people will ask over and over again that could be addressed on the web site.
Commissioner Kindness asked that the Commissioners provide comments on the mock up brochures that were provided by
the Communications Subcommittee so that they can put the brochure into a readable format with pictures, etc.
13. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to address, the Commission adjourned the meeting at 4:55 p.m.
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