2004-03-11 Historic Preservation Commission MinutesHISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
March 11, 2004
1. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting of the Edmonds Historic Preservation Commission was called to order at 3:30 p.m. in the 3rd Floor Conference
Room of City Hall, 121 — 5t' Avenue North.
PRESENT ABSENT
Gregg Arnold, Chair Darrell Marmion
Stephen Waite, Vice Chair
Barbara Kindness
Ed Baker
Chuck LeWarne
Michael Plunkett
Commissioner Marmion was excused from the meeting.
2. ANNOUNCEMENT OF AGENDA
The agenda was approved as presented.
3. READING/APPROVAL OF MINUTES
STAFF PRESENT
Star Campbell, Planner
Rob Chave, Planning Division Manager
Because the Commissioners just received their copy of the minutes of February 12, 2004, Ms. Campbell suggested that they
postpone approval until after they have had an opportunity to review them. She asked that they pay particular attention to
the sections that are highlighted, since this indicates areas where the tape was not clear. The Commission agreed to postpone
their approval of the minutes.
4. REQUESTS FROM THE AUDIENCE
There was no one present in the audience.
5. DESIGNATION REVIEWS
There were no design reviews scheduled on the agenda.
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
There was no unfinished business scheduled on the agenda.
7. SUBCOMMITTEE REPORTS
a. Administrative Subcommittee Reuort
Commissioner LeWarne reported that the City Council accepted the Historic Preservation Commission's recommendation to
approve the application for the Carnegie Library to be included on the Edmonds Register of Historic Places. There was no
discussion by the City Council, and the approval was unanimous.
Council Member Plunkett said the Mayor, as the property owner for this application, must sign the documents. Mr. Chave
said staff is working with Mayor Haakenson to complete this process. Staff will advise the Commission when everything has
been completed.
Ms. Campbell said her understanding is that an ordinance would be drafted that goes back to the City Council for final
approval on their consent agenda. This would be the standard procedure for any application that goes before the City Council
for consideration.
Commissioner LeWarne advised that he met with Ms. Campbell and Mr. Chave a few weeks ago to review the applications
for the consultant position. There were five applications, and two were omitted after their review process. He reported that
they would meet again on March 12' to interview the other three applicants. He said he anticipates a recommendation will
be available for the Commission's consideration very soon.
Council Member Plunkett said his assumption is that the Administration Subcommittee should start working to get a grant
application submitted to the Lodging Tax Advisory Committee for this year. He suggested that the same application that was
submitted last year be resubmitted. He noted that there are new members on the committee.
Council Member Plunkett advised that the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation offers grant opportunities. The goal
of this grant fund is to provide small, yet meaningful, amounts of money ($1,000) to help promote historic preservation. The
printing of brochures is among the projects they tend to support. He inquired if the Commission would like the
Administrative Subcommittee to submit an application for this grant to help pay for the printing of their brochures.
COMMISSIONER WAITE MOVED THAT THE ADMINISTRATIVE SUBCOMMITTEE SUBMIT A FORMAL
APPLICATION TO THE WASHINGTON TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION FOR GRANT FUNDING TO
PRINT THE COMMISSION'S BROCHURE. COMMISSIONER BAKER SECONDED THE MOTION.
Commissioner LeWarne inquired if this application would be identical to the one that was submitted to the Lodging Tax
Advisory Committee. Council Member Plunkett answered that this would be a separate application. Commissioner
LeWarne suggested that the purpose for this new application would have to be different. Council Member Plunkett recalled
that, at one time, the Commission discussed the option of creating two brochures. Because of lack of funding, this was
condensed into one brochure. He suggested that even if they continue with just one brochure, they could attempt to obtain
money from both places for the same document. Chair Arnold agreed, and suggested that if they were to receive funding
from both sources, perhaps they could approach them with the idea of using some of the money for a videotape production,
etc. Council Member Plunkett said the other option would be to do two separate brochures if both sources of funding are
available.
Commissioner LeWarne reminded the Commission that the Lodging Tax Advisory Committee is mainly interested in
supporting projects that bring people into the community, and the Commission's application was a little weak in this area.
He suggested that the grant application that is submitted to the Lodging Tax Advisory Committee could be for printing a
brochure that is related to promoting tourism. The application that is submitted to the Washington Trust for Historic
Preservation could be for the brochure that the Commission is currently working on. Commissioner Kindness agreed. She
questioned if it would be appropriate to provide a proposed design for the brochures along with the grant applications.
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Chair Arnold introduced Dan Dutson, who was responsible for doing the filming for the Commission's videotape. He asked
each of the Commissioners to introduce themselves. Mr. Dutson advised that he was present to take a "cut away shot" of the
Commission at work to include on the videotape.
Commissioner LeWarne inquired as to the date the Lodging Tax Advisory Committee would be reviewing the applications.
He also asked who chairs the committee. Council Member Plunkett said he does not know who the chair of the committee is,
but he would suspect the committee would review the applications towards the end of the year.
Council Member Plunkett clarified that the Commission would like to submit a grant application for a historic preservation
brochure to the Washington Trust for Historic Preservation. Another grant application would be tailored more towards
tourism.
THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
b. Communications Subcommittee Report
Commissioner Kindness advised that there was no new information to report regarding the status of the public
forum/celebration.
Chair Arnold reported that all of the changes and comments provided by the individual Commissioners on the draft brochure
have been forwarded to the designer who would be working on the graphics pro bono. When the final layout of the brochure
is available, he would provide a copy to each of the Commissioners for their review before the brochure is published.
Chair Arnold advised that the Communications Subcommittee is working with Mr. Dutson to shoot the videotape for the
Channel 22 presentation. He said the Communications Subcommittee has discussed the idea of passing the video around to
the various service groups in the City. He noted that it is important to mention the new brochure in the videotape.
Chair Arnold inquired if the Commission would be in favor of mentioning the federal tax credit for commercial buildings on
the videotape. He suggested that since the Commission could still assist commercial property owners in seeking these tax
credits, they should be mentioned. Council Member Plunkett agreed that although the Commission would not be able to
make any decisions related to the federal tax credit, they could help people who have property on the register learn about this
opportunity.
Chair Arnold advised that the copy for the videotape is nearly the same as it was presented in February, but minor changes
were made throughout. In addition to information about the federal tax credit, he suggested that one more frame be added at
the end to direct people to call or come to City Hall for a brochure if they want more information on the benefits of historic
preservation. The Commission agreed this would be appropriate.
Council Member Plunkett said that he and Commissioner Waite would like to work on the wording of the four incentive
points that are discussed in the video. Chair Arnold said this would be possible, but they should provide the new language to
him as soon as possible.
Commissioner Kindness inquired if the Commission would like to coordinate opportunities to present the videotape and
brochure to the various community groups throughout the City. The Commission agreed that it would be helpful for
Commissioner Kindness to contact these groups and schedule times for the presentations.
C. Historic Register Subcommittee Report
Council Member Plunkett advised that Ms. Hanby appears to be moving along in her application to have the church added to
the register. Ms. Campbell reported that Ms. Hanby spoke with staff recently about her application, and staff expressed to
her that she needs to provide a narrative of the history of the church and precisely what has historic significance and why.
She said she would follow up with Ms. Hanby to help her understand the process.
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Council Member Plunkett said that Ms. Hanby is under the impression that the application is ready to go before the
Commission. If that is not the case, it is important to let her know exactly what she needs to do. Ms. Campbell said staff
believes they have already identified what is missing from the application. Council Member Plunkett said the purpose of Ms.
Hanby's recent visit to the City staff was to respond to the staff's request for additional information. She is now under the
impression that she has provided all of the necessary information and the application is ready to proceed through the review
process.
Ms. Campbell advised that staff has requested that Ms. Hanby provide a chronology of the seminal events that have taken
place at the church. Council Member Plunkett questioned why staff needs to have a history of events, since this is not a
requirement of the ordinance. Ms. Campbell said they are not asking for a detailed history, but a narrative to identify why the
church is important and why she wants it to be included on the register.
Chair Arnold inquired if there is some way the Commission could facilitate this application. Council Member Plunkett said
he has been trying to do this, but he is getting frustrated with the process. If the application is still not right, he said he would
meet with Ms. Campbell to find out what needs to be done. Chair Arnold expressed his concern that it is important that the
application process be simple for people to follow.
The Commission discussed whether or not it would be appropriate for members of the Commission to assist the property
owners in filling out their applications. They also discussed the option of finding grand funding that would allow them to
hire people to assist property owners through the process. The Commission agreed that the individual Commissioners have
the ability to act as facilitators to help property owners through the application process. However, Chair Arnold cautioned
against overburdening any one member of the Commission.
Council Member Plunkett said that the property owners of the Masonic Temple are in the process of deciding whether or not
they want to make application for historic status. There is also a property owner who has expressed interest in having his
house placed on the register.
d. Incentives Subcommittee Reuort
Commissioner Waite referred to the draft document titled, "Historic Redevelopment and Maintenance Codes of Edmonds"
that was sent out to all of the Commissioners for their review. Council Member Plunkett reviewed that the document would
be available as a handout in the Planning Department Office to help people understand the possibilities for historic structures.
The Commission took a few minutes to review the document. Council Member Plunkett emphasized the importance of using
the same language and concepts in all of the information that is put out by the City related to historic preservation.
Commissioner Waite referred to the first paragraph and noted that the word "downtown" is used a few times. He questioned
if the public might perceive that historic preservation only applies to downtown Edmonds. Commissioner Arnold agreed and
suggested that "historic downtown" be replaced with "historic structures." The second "downtown" should be deleted.
Commissioner LeWarne suggested that the words "The preservation of our historic downtown" could be replaced with
"Well-preserved historic buildings." The second "downtown" could be eliminated. The Commission agreed that because
there are historic structures all around the City, the language should be changed as recommended by Commissioner
LeWarne.
The Commission also discussed the words "significant neighborhoods" in the second to the last sentence of the first
paragraph. Commissioner Waite questioned if this would be perceived as an attempt to form a historic district. He recalled
that the former City Council President cautioned the Commission to be extremely careful about this. Council Member
Plunkett recalled that when the Historic Preservation Ordinance was being considered by the City Council, he brought up the
issue of historic districts and did not receive a favorable response. As a result, any mention of a historic district was removed
from the proposed ordinance. It was agreed that this issue would be raised at a future time when the Commission had
become established and the public is more familiar with the concept of historic preservation. They agreed that "significant
neighborhoods" should be changed to "historic homes."
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Commissioner Waite referred to the third paragraph, which states that property owners would become eligible for property
tax relief on improvements. He emphasized that this would only apply to the physical value of the improvement, not the land
value. He also referred to the statement "may qualify for help with possible special rehabilitation funding" and questioned
what this would refer to. Council Member Plunkett said he was told by Ms. Graff that special funding was available from the
Federal Government for rehabilitation of historic structures, but Mr. Chave later indicated this was not true. He had intended
to take this statement out of the document. The Commission agreed that this statement should be removed.
Commissioner Kindness recalled a previous discussion amongst the Commission that the term "historic buildings" should be
changed to "historic buildings and sites." She questioned if this would be appropriate for this document. The Commission
agreed that using the word properties would be sufficient. They also agreed that the word "landmark buildings" should be
changed to "buildings and sites."
Commissioner Baker suggested that in order to be consistent throughout the document, the words "significant
neighborhoods" should be changed to "historic properties." He noted that the Commission previously agreed to change this
to "historic homes." Commissioner Waite agreed that they need to work on the document to make sure consistent terms are
used throughout.
Commissioner LeWarne referred to the first sentence in the last paragraph and suggested that the word "can" should be added
between "and" and "facilitate." The remainder of the Commission agreed.
Commissioner Kindness referred to the last paragraph of the document and noted that the correct name for the register is
"The Edmonds Register of Historic Places." Council Member Plunkett noted that the ordinance also calls the register "The
Edmonds Register of Historic Places/Properties." The Commission agreed that either term would be appropriate.
Chair Arnold suggested that the Commission forward a letter to the City Council recommending that the City Council
approve the ordinance that would allow the City to reference the State historic code. Council Member Plunkett recalled that
Ms. Graff indicated that approval of an ordinance would be necessary in order to reference the State historic code. Therefore,
the Commission needs to take action by making a recommendation to the City Council. However, he questioned if now is
the appropriate time to forward the letter. He noted that Ms. Graff would present a list of code changes that need to be
considered by the City Council in May. She said this list of code changes would include the ordinance recommended by the
Commission. The Commission could send a letter to the City Council just prior to the issue coming before them for
consideration. Chair Arnold said it would also be appropriate for the Commission to forward this letter now.
COMMISSIONER WAITE MOVED THAT THE COMMISSION ALLOW HIM TO DRAFT A LETTER INDICATING
TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL THAT THE COMMISSION SUPPORTS THE INCLUSION OF THE WASHINGTON
STATE HISTORIC CODE INTO THE CITY'S SERIES OF PROPOSED BUILDING CODE AMENDMENTS.
COMMISSIONER BAKER SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Council Member Plunkett inquired how long ago the Commission asked the Planning Board to take up the issue of non-
conformance. He recalled that the Commission discussed situations where older buildings that are non -conforming would
not be allowed to be rebuilt in their old historic nature. Any redevelopment would have to meet the new code requirements.
He inquired about the status of the non-conformance issue. He said Mr. Chave advised that they could address this issue by
adding the following to the non-conformance section of the code: "or Edmonds Register of Historic Places" be added at the
end of this sentence. "
Council Member Plunkett said he sent a letter to the Planning Board President asking the Board to consider this issue.
Planning Board President Young replied that the Board has no plans in the near future to consider this issue. Council
Member Plunkett inquired how the Commission wants to proceed since any changes must go through the Planning Board for
review before they can be considered by the City Council. He noted that one of the incentives is rehabilitation, but the City
cannot provide a property owner with the ability to do rehabilitation until the code is amended.
COMMISSIONER LEWARNE MOVED THAT THE COMMISSION AUTHORIZE THE CHAIR TO APPOINT A
COMMISSION MEMBER OR TWO TO GO WITH COUNCIL MEMBER PLUNKETT TO TALK TO MR. YOUNG,
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THE PLANNING BOARD CHAIR. COMMISSIONER KINDNESS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
8. NEW BUSINESS
The discussion related to the information that was provided related to historic preservation in the City of Spokane was
postponed to the next meeting.
9. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Ms. Campbell recalled that at the last meeting she agreed to create a handout to give to people who come to the City seeking
information about how to place their property on the historic register. She said that as she worked on this handout and
considered the handout that the Incentives Subcommittee is also in the process of creating, she became a little confused about
the purpose and intent of each. She said her understanding was that the handout that is being drafted by the Commission was
intended for people who already have their property on the register and are coming in for a building permit because they want
to do some changes. The handout would identify the applicable building permit codes that could be used and what the
process would be for the building permit. But when she read the draft, it appears to be directed towards people who do not
already have their properties on the register. It appears to point out the importance of the register and provide background on
how the Commission got to this point.
Chair Arnold said he shares Ms. Campbell's concern. Even after receiving the document, he would still not know what to do
to obtain the necessary building permits. Ms. Campbell suggested that perhaps there should be one handout for someone
who is considering being on the register. This could provide background information and identify the importance of the
historic designation. It could tell them about the process for getting a property designated on the register and identify all of
the benefits. The other option would be to have one handout that talks merely about the background and importance of
registering and how to get on the register. A completely separate handout could be provided to people who are interested in
doing revisions for their property to describe the building permit process.
Chair Arnold said the average citizen who wants to make changes on their property needs help to understand the permitting
process. He suggested that the handout could provide information about how to place a property on the register. Then it
could direct the property owners to contact a professional if they want to make major changes to their property.
Commissioner Waite said the purpose of the draft document proposed by Council Member Plunkett is to provide a user-
friendly introduction to historic preservation. It could be used for promotion, as well. However, once a person learns about
all of the steps that must be followed in order to obtain the necessary permits, they might be scared off. He suggested that the
user-friendly document merely encourage property owners to contact the Planning Department to obtain more information
about the process. It is the first impression that will have an impact on whether or not people seek to have their properties
added to the register.
Council Member Plunkett agreed with Ms. Campbell's assessment of the Commission's original discussion. However, when
they reviewed the first draft of the document, they were concerned. The Commission attempted to take the "scary" parts out,
but the end result is that the document no longer describes the steps that must be followed in order to obtain a building
permit. Commissioner Kindness agreed, and added that the Commission discussed the need to provide visual diagrams to
illustrate the process.
Council Member Plunkett pointed out that the draft document he created was intended to address the concerns of a property
owner that has not had his/her property identified on the register yet. The document provides information for people who
want to learn more about historic preservation. Commissioner Waite said citizens have expressed that they don't want to be
placed on the register because "their hands would be tied" and they don't want to deal with the bureaucracy. The
Commission's intent is to correct that misconception.
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Ms. Campbell said Ms. Graff is looking at this handout from the perspective of someone who already has their property
included on the register and they are looking for a building permit. What should she tell people they need to do in order to
obtain a building permit. She noted that the title of the document is "Historic Building Permit Submittal Requirements." She
did not feel this document was originally intended to be a first step introduction to someone who was not on the register. She
suggested that the handout could be provided that includes generalities and the importance and history of historic
preservation. It could provide a reference to direct citizens to contact a planner for an application form and additional
information. When someone comes in with an application, another handout could be provided to describe all of the specific
requirements.
The Commission agreed that the draft handout that was prepared by Council Member Plunkett would work to provide
information both for people who already have their properties on the register and those who are considering making an
application.
10. HISTORIC PRESERVATION CHAIR COMMENTS
Chair Arnold provided no additional comments during this portion of the meeting.
11. HISTORIC PRESERVATION MEMBER COMMENTS
None of the Commissioners provided additional comments.
12. ADJOURNMENT
THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 5:30 P.M.
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