2023-01-27 Special Meeting Retreat
Edmonds City Council Approved Retreat Minutes
January 27, 2023
Page 1
EDMONDS CITY COUNCIL RETREAT
APPROVED MINUTES
January 27, 2023
ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT
Mike Nelson, Mayor
Neil Tibbott, Council President
Vivian Olson, Councilmember
Will Chen, Councilmember
Diane Buckshnis, Councilmember
Susan Paine, Councilmember
Dave Teitzel, Councilmember
Jenna Nand, Councilmember
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Susanna Law Martini
Jeremy Mitchell
Richard Kuehn
Mary Beth Tragus-Campbell, Vice Chair
Nick Maxwell, Alternate
STAFF PRESENT
Michelle Bennett, Police Chief
Dave Turley, Administrative Services Director
Oscar Antillon, Public Works Director
Angie Feser, Parks, Rec., & Human Serv. Dir.
Susan McLaughlin, Planning & Dev. Dir.
Todd Tatum, Comm. Serv. & Econ. Dev. Dir.
Uneek Maylor, Court Administrator
Scott Passey, City Clerk
Beckie Peterson, Council Executive Assistant
Jeannie Dines, Recorder
GUESTS
Deanna Dawson, CEO, Association of WA Cities
COFFEE & REGISTRATION
1. CALL TO ORDER/FLAG SALUTE
The Edmonds City Council retreat was called to order at 9:10 a.m. in the Brackett Meeting Room, 121 5th
Avenue N, City Hall – 3rd Floor, Edmonds. The meeting was opened with the flag salute.
2. ROLL CALL
Council Executive Assistant Beckie Peterson called the roll. All elected officials were present.
4. RETREAT BUSINESS
Council President Tibbott thanked everyone for attending and reviewed the agenda. He invited
councilmembers and staff to participate in an exercise – Meet Your Neighbors. Each person visited with
three councilmembers and three staff members and asked three questions about themselves related to hand
(skill), head (something they are interested in), and heart (something they are passionate about) to learn
about each other.
A. CITY GOALS – COUNCIL, MAYOR NELSON AND CITY DEPARTMENT HEADS
Council President Tibbott commented many have heard, we’re better together, but what he likes to say is
when we are making progress together, we are better when we have a direction to go together. Today’s
retreat is to talk about that direction. He referred to a handout with the 2023 City Vision statement that the
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January 27, 2023
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planning & development department developed via a survey. Ms. McLaughlin read the vision: “Edmonds
is a welcoming city offering outstanding quality of life for all. We value environmental stewardship, vibrant
and diverse neighborhoods, safe and healthy streets, and a thriving arts scene. We are engaged residents
who take price in shaping our resilient future.”
Council President Tibbott provided the following City goals that he developed related to what the City
spends the most money on. Councilmembers and staff identified City activities related to each goal:
• Public Safety
o Traffic
o Police
o Policies
o Fire
o Courts
o Human services (social worker)
• Community Services
o Parks
o Human services
o Arts and culture
o Engagement and outreach
• Administrative Support
o Finances
o Software & tech security
o Human Resources
o Public records
• Infrastructure Needs
o Sidewalks
o Streets
o Climate
o Stormwater
o Traffic calming devices
o Climate
o Facilities
o Strategic Plans
• Economic Development
o Tourism
o Business
o Equity
o Housing
• Environment (new category)
o Watersheds
o Tree canopy
o Urban wildlife
o Water quality
• Funding (new category)
o CIP/CFP
o How get money?
o Infrastructure/staff for using it
o Grants
o Geographic distribution
Discussion included values such as resiliency, sustainability, equity, and being strategic; identifying
funding sources; hiring a grants manager/project manager that could be funded by grants; whether planning
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January 27, 2023
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is nimble enough to take advantage of funding resources; and the CIP/CFP helping the City work toward
its infrastructure goals.
A. COUNCIL STRATEGIC PLANNING – COUNCIL
Council brainstormed the following topics:
• Achieve
o Cooperation with administration
o Coordination
o Budgeting process
o Public outreach
o Representation
o Transparency
o Software
o Revenue
o Staffing
o Annexation
o ILAs
o Conduct of council
o Business support policy
o Arts support
o Police substation
o Community center
o Human services – staffing, outreach
o Zoning refinement – Hwy 99
o Clean-up
• Preserve
o Neighborhood centers
o Walkability
o Volunteer engagement
o Art/cultural events
o Listening
o Small town feel
o Industry/medical center
o Tourism
o Parks/trails/natural environment
• Avoid
o Canopy loss
o Public conflict between council and administration
o Party politics
o Disrespecting citizens
o Public criticism – reputation damage
o Barriers – access
o Undermining fellow councilmembers
o Breaking up single family neighborhoods, losing local control
o Privileging
Councilmembers broke into committees (two councilmembers each) and left the room to walk/talk about
ways committees could be involved in the above.
Councilmembers identified connections between the three lists and then moved items to a project list:
• Explore Plan for City Services: Police Substation/Relocation
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January 27, 2023
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• Explore Plan for City Services: Community Center
• Explore Plan for City Services: Library
• Explore Plan for City Services: City Hall
• Partnership for Clean Up Activities
• Council Code of Conduct
• Council Rules of Procedure
• Software ERP upgrade
• Zoning – promote conversation with public
• Housing Commission – Review of Recommendations
• Budget Retreat – Mechanics and Scheduling (Council and Staff/Admin)
• Budget Timeline (via Finance Committee) (Council and Staff/Admin)
• Create Engagement zone: CM > Geographic area
• Salary Commission (noted as both Council and Staff/Admin)
• Promote Arts and Activities across Edmonds
• Evaluate Staffing / Review Budget of Staffing
• Evaluate Revenue – Long Range Financial Planning
• Evaluate Revenue – Taxation and Banking Capacity Options
• Explore Annexation with County – Southwest County Park, Perrinville, Esperance
• Explore Annexation with County – Cost to City, Tax impact on residents
• Improve Representation – districting or rank choice voting
• Priorities of Code Update/ Code Rewrite to Committee (PW? PSPHSP? All?)
• City Attorney and City Prosecutor
• Explore Publicity/Transparency re: County purchased Hotel
• Explore Environmental Funding for Watershed /Erosion
• Explore Fire Station Facilities
• Council clarity and direction and communication with Boards and commissions
• Explore Parking (needs and options)
• Aging Infrastructure (Staff/Admin)
Councilmembers divided into two groups along with one audience member to see which group, working
together, could build the highest self-supporting, free standing tower on a table top in 15 minutes using only
playdough and pasta.
Group A: Councilmembers Buckshnis, Olson and Teitzel and Roger Pence
Group B: Councilmembers Chen and Paine and Darrol Haug
Comments about the activity included teamwork, good ideas, strong foundation, fun to see how ideas come
together, collective building, need to talk in advance, not enough planning early on, rules changed during
the project, identify what problem we’re trying to solve, agree in advance and innovate as we go along, and
rely on the expert/someone with experience.
5. RECESS FOR LUNCH
The council recessed for lunch at 12:07 p.m. Councilmember Chen left the meeting.
The retreat reconvened at 12:51 p.m.
6. CONTINUE RETREAT BUSINESS
A. EFFECTIVE COUNCIL MEETINGS – COUNCIL, DEANNA DAWSON, CEO, ASSOCIATION
OF WASHINGTON CITIES
Edmonds City Council Approved Retreat Minutes
January 27, 2023
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1. EFFECTIVE COUNCIL MEETINGS
Council President Tibbott introduced Deanna Dawson, CEO, AWC. She relayed a quote, “culture eats
strategy for breakfast.” The council has been doing strategy all morning. This agenda item will be about
culture, the culture of the council and the planning board and how they interact.
Ms. Dawson thanked the planning board and city council for the work they do and the benefits they provide
to the community, recognizing they do not get thanked enough. She commented one of the difference
between when she was on the council and now is there was no social media when she was on the council;
social media creates another layer of complication for the job.
(Councilmember Chen returned to the meeting at 12:54 p.m.).
Ms. Dawson described her background which includes Snohomish County Executive Director,; President
of Snohomish County Cities & Towns when she was on Edmonds Council, serving on several regional
boards and committees including Sound Transit, South County representative on Sound Transit when ST2
was approved, working in Washington D.C. for a few years, about 10 years with Sound Cities Association
(38 cities in King County except Seattle), and CEO of AWC for the past seven months. She recalled when
she was at SCA, there was a monthly Public Issues Committee meeting that included a representative from
each of the 38 member cities; their meetings lasted two hours or less so it is possible to have short meetings
with a large group. Her biggest piece of advice to councilmembers is to be nicer to staff and have shorter
meetings.
Ms. Dawson explained the information she will provide is not just the result of being a councilmember but
also mentoring mayors and councilmembers. Council President Tibbott asked her to talk about shorter
council meetings and tips and techniques for working together effectively as a council. She encouraged
councilmembers to ask questions/share examples of things they are grappling with during her presentation,
but if councilmembers are not comfortable doing that, she invited them to follow up with her. She assured
the AWC team is a great resource for the City.
• Shorter meetings
o Nothing feels shorter than three minutes when you are speaking and nothing that feels longer
than three minutes when you are listening to someone else talk, especially someone you don’t
necessarily agree with
o We all tend to underestimate how long we’re talking and over-estimating how long others are
talking which leads to frustration.
o Watch a council meeting video and time yourself
o Some cities’ council meetings last until 2 a.m. and they are losing staff and councilmembers
and people don’t want to seek office. Getting a handle on functional meetings is very important
to the jurisdiction.
o Few people work well after 2 hours, fewer work well after 3 hours and even fewer work well
after 10 p.m. Having shorter council meetings is important.
o Ms. Dawson asked if the council thought their meetings were excessively long. (council
responses in italics)
It depends on the year. The dynamics changed since 45 was in office and people felt they
could say whatever they wanted. The public and councilmembers have gotten cruel over
the last few years.
Last year’s meetings were long because so much content needed to be packed in.
Councilmembers could streamline their individual contributions/comment and think
through their comments ahead of time.
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January 27, 2023
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Last year it was reasonably common that meetings went until 11 p.m. The council does not
make good decisions after 10 p.m.
o If public comments cause meetings to run long, the simplest way to address it would be to
reduce comment to two minutes or limit the total length of time for public comments. The
council can decide at each meeting how much time to allot for public comment. The council
could also have public comment at some meetings and not all. It would need to be included in
the council procedures. The harder issue is council debate/discussion that takes too long.
o Schedule training from Parliamentarian Ann Macfarlane every year regarding effective council
meetings.
Council President Tibbott offered to send councilmembers a link to the Zoom meeting from
last year’s training.
o When council meetings last too long, it may be because there are too many things on the agenda
and/or the council is taking a long time on each item. If there is too much on the agenda, is
there that much legislative work to do or is the council actually getting into the administration’s
business? The council’s role as policy makers and as a legislative body and how to be most
effective is an important training topic.
o If the council is spending too much time on agenda items, is it because council is spending a
lot of time questioning staff, having a lot of debate or are councilmembers pontificating? If
there are a lot of questions for staff, it may be because councilmembers have not done their
homework or read the council packet.
o If questions arise after reading agenda materials, it is better not to wait until the council meeting
to ask staff. If they are legitimate questions, it is better to give staff a heads up so they can
include it in their presentation. It saves a lot of time and makes presentations smoother if staff
is not caught catch off-guard during a meeting.
o Sometimes asking questions of staff is debate masquerading as a question. If councilmembers
feel there is not enough time to delve into issues at council meetings, there may need to be
better committee work. The committee structure works well if there is a high degree of trust in
fellow councilmembers to allow them to vet issues.
o Don’t have surprises at council meetings. Serial meetings are a violation of the OPMA, but
staff can contact each councilmember and incorporate their comments/concerns in their
report/presentation.
o Role of the presider
Rules can include not allowing a councilmember to speak a second time until everyone has
spoken once, conducting debate via round robin, not allowing councilmembers to speak
more than twice, etc. Set up a structure that produces a better result.
If some councilmembers have a lot to say, it can create issues in the dynamic between
councilmembers as well as make meetings run long.
• Culture
o Best advice: always be respectful and build relationships
o Elected officials should get involved regionally, statewide, and nationally. Being a
councilmember is hard work and it can be lonely. AWC and National League of Cities
conferences are good places to get to know electeds.
o It’s good for councilmembers to get to know each other. Recommend groups of 2-4
councilmembers meet for coffee, lunch, dinner, etc. One of the values of out of town retreats
is electeds getting to know each other and getting to know staff. It’s harder to get upset with
someone when you know more about them.
Council Questions & Comments (Ms. Dawson’s response in italics)
Sometimes the same topic goes to more than one committee. Would it be more effective to have it
come to full council? Many cities hold committee of the whole or study sessions prior to council
meeting instead of committees. If long meetings are due to debate on the dais, consider who you
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are trying to convince; if you are trying to get to four, it usually does not work. If councilmembers
want a lot of conversation, a study session may be good place.
Committee of the whole is time consuming
Committee of the whole was helpful as it helps provide orientation to new councilmembers but can
take a long time. Having committee meetings on Zoom is a great way to provide public access and
allow other councilmembers to participate. Committees can be great if the full council does not
debate items that the committee has already discussed. Committees are intended to be a place to
ask/answer questions.
Workshops at AWC conference are very valuable, councilmembers can learn a lot.
How do you get around OPMA issues with out of town retreats. Retreat is open to the public.
Once a vote happens, move on. It’s okay to agree to disagree. There are issues on which good minds
can differ. The U.S. is divided as a country and things are very contentious; local government is a
place to fix that and model good behavior for residents. Most local issues are not partisan.
Recommend reading: “I Never Thought of It Like Way” by Monica Guzman. If you take time to get
to know people and have conversations with them, you start to unpeel the layers of why they believe
something. Rarely do people get involved in local government as a stepping stone. Most people do
it because they care about their community and want to make it better.
Social media makes it easier for people to be mean/nasty.
Ms. Dawson distributed a handout from Ann Macfarlane, “Are Your Meetings Seven Hours Long?” She
also distributed and reviewed the Sound Cities Association (SCA) Guiding Principles, developed at a board
retreat in 2020, and adopted by SCA:
• Assume that others are acting with good intent
• No surprises!
• Have each other’s backs
• Think about who is not at the table
• Be candid, but kind
• Once a decision is made, work together to make it work
• Show up to meetings prepared
• Be fully present and engaged during meetings
• Extend grace to others – cut them some slack
• Remain open-minded
• Respect differing views
Ms. Dawson relayed the result to a question on an AWC Poll:
Some people are concerned about polarization in government, and a lack of civility among elected
officials. When it comes to local government (your mayor and city council) which of these
statements best sums up your views, even if neither is exactly right:
Option A: (85%) I want my city leaders to treat each other with respect and civility, and to
work together to get positive results for our city even if they have political
differences.
Option B: (15%) I want my city leaders to fight for what they believe in, and to stand up
against those they disagree with.
Council questions & comments (Ms. Dawson’s answers in italics)
Some issues are inherently confrontational.
Some people in the community think if the council does not agree, they cannot be friends. How do
we bring the community together and help them understand the council can disagree and remain
friends? Model that behavior. Councilmembers can make it worse if they are mad at each other
and malign each other’s intent.
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Are guiding principles designed to focus on intra-council interactions or council-staff interactions
or both? Both. In adopting guiding principles, figure out what matters to the council.
Feels like the council should be trying to serving constituents, often if feels like council versus staff
which creates tension. The lines between what staff and council gets blurred. Why was staff not at
the retreat? They were here the first hour and invited to stay but they are busy. They will be
included in a future retreat on a more refined topic.
There are relationship, trust and collaboration issues between council and the administration. We
need to work together respectfully. Guiding principles are a good start. There is training available
regarding the lines between council and staff responsibilities. If a councilmember has an issue with
the administration’s policy, take it up with the mayor, do not put staff in an uncomfortable position
at a meeting.
No surprises includes not breaching trust or confidence. Let people speak for themselves. Don’t
gossip or speak on someone’s behalf
How do the guiding principles fit into the code of conduct? They are a kind of code of conduct.
Some groups adopt guiding principles and look at them before every meeting. I keep the guiding
principles on my desk and try to live by them in my interactions with people. They do not have to
be adopted by the council. SCA puts the guiding principles in board materials.
Regarding once a decision is made, work together to make it work. How does that work? Even if
you feel a decision is wrong, you have to work to implement the bad decision? Depends on what it
is, but this is a standard rule under Roberts Rules of Order. Unless it is a moral issue, do what is
best for the government.
Has AWC taken a position on HB 1110? This same issue arose during the last session and AWC
strongly opposed legislation that took away the ability for cities to decide where growth should
happen. AWC felt the legislature did not engage with cities, so AWC had a very robust process over
the summer and fall with electeds throughout the state who agreed there was a huge need for
affordable housing in the state, but there is a role for local government and developed
recommendations (available on AWC website). Cities should talk with their legislators about why
it is important to retain some local decision making authority as well as acknowledge it is a crisis
and show what communities are doing to address the challenge. She suggested the City share the
work they are doing on this issue with their legislators, particularly Strom Peterson and Marko
Liias.
How is tearing down a single family house and replacing it with a 6-plex make sense from an
affordable housing point of view when the unit are not affordable and from a planning perspective
of providing infrastructure for higher density? There is a notion if you build enough housing, it will
become more affordable. The challenge with that argument is there is no capacity for the
construction industry to build enough housing that it will move the needle in that regard. If the goal
is density, it will solve that challenge, but it if is creating more affordability, it won’t solve that
problem. The reason most cities are not allowing density is related to infrastructure challenges,
not just an aesthetic choice.
How much engagement has there been with the business community especially tech businesses? It
will take a concerted effort to determine where growth can be accommodated in each community.
The biggest largest flaw in GMA is it does not consider the environment or climate change.
If more housing and density is needed, the GMA standards need to be increased. We need to
accommodate more capacity but each jurisdiction should figure it out. If cities/counties are not
meeting the standards, the state should have a hammer.
Ms. Dawson invited councilmembers to contact her (deannad@awcnet.org) with any issues.
B. COUNCIL 2023 OBJECTIVES – COUNCIL
Setting Council Priorities
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January 27, 2023
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Council President Tibbott provided the following quote: “People tend to overestimate what they can
accomplish in a year and underestimate what they can accomplish in five years.” Councilmembers reflected
on the quote:
• True in my own life, make a list, surprising how much can get done in a year and then in subsequent
years
• Manage priorities, make a 5 year plan, sometimes 30 year plan
• Shoot for the stars, at the very least you will get to the moon
• Make 1-2 year goals
• Document short term and medium term goals
• Life changes in dramatic ways every five years
• Get more done by doing less
• Due to pandemic, false sense of urgency to make up for time
• Pent up demand among citizens
• Work expectations affect life/work balance and morale
• Exercise discipline with the workload the council takes on
Council President Tibbott shared the following priority grid:
In preparation for prioritizing the strategic planning projects that the council identified in the exercise earlier
in the day, Councilmembers discussed examples of city work that is important and urgent, important but
not urgent, not important but urgent, and not urgent and not important.
Council President Tibbott explained the A list, the most urgent/most important projects, would be
calendared in one of the four quarters of 2023 and the calendar posted in the council office. The B list (items
identified by councilmembers top 10 list), and C list (items identified as important to councilmembers) of
projects will be posted in the council office.
Via a prioritization exercise, the following tasks (identified via an exercise earlier in the day) were
identified/prioritized:
• A-List (Items most identified by councilmember as a top priority and assigned to a quarter of 2023):
o Quarter 1
City attorney and city prosecutor
Priorities of code update/code rewrite to committee (PW? PSPHSP?)
Snohomish County bridge housing facility plan communicated
Environmental funding for watershed /erosion
Salary commission (council and staff/admin)
o Quarter 2
Partnership for cleanup activities
Budget process – mechanics and scheduling
Priority Grid
Urgent Not Urgent
Important
Not
Important
Do First
A- List Activities
Council Calendar
Do Next
B-List Activities
Council Wall
Do Later
C – List Activities
Extended List
Don’t Do
D- List Activities
Idea List
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Housing Commission recommendations reviewed
Explore annexation of unincorporated areas
o Quarter 3
Revenue requirements evaluated – long range financial planning, taxation and banking
capacity options
Software ERP upgrade
Engagement zones
Arts and activities promoted across Edmonds
Plan for City services and budget requests considered - Hwy 99 Corridor, Police
Substation/relocation, lighting, etc.
• B-List (Items identified by Councilmembers “top 10 list”)
o Council Code of Conduct
o Council Rules of Procedure
o Zoning – promote conversation with public
o Budget timeline (via finance committee) (noted as both council and staff/admin)
o Evaluate staffing / review budget of staffing
o Evaluate emergency waterfront access
o Consider reorganizing boards and commissions, for example, move parks from planning board
to tree board
• C-List (Items identified as important to Councilmembers)
o Improve representation – districting or rank choice voting
o Explore fire station facilities
o Explore plan for city services: community center, library, city hall
o Council clarity and direction and communication with boards and commissions
o Explore parking (needs and options)
o Aging infrastructure (noted as staff/admin)
Questions and discussion followed regarding the budget timeline, holding an informational meeting about
the hotel on Highway 99, Mike Bailey’s suggestion that the council adopt a resolution identifying what the
council wants included in the next year’s budget, the council’s role in moving forward with an ERP, concern
some people do not like “Uptown,” inviting council candidates to watch the budget process, establishing a
budget schedule before candidates apply, brainstorming budget process with potential new councilmembers
at a budget retreat including best practices, scrubbing the CIP/CFP, having staff provide regular updates to
committees, adding items to the list such as flower poles/flower beds on Highway 99 and emergency
response on the waterfront, and identifying key dates such as when the election is certified.
C. DEBRIEF - COUNCIL
Council President Tibbott expressed his appreciation for everyone’s participation today. He invited
councilmembers to identify what they needed from the council president to help things go smoothly, help
committees function more effectively, etc.:
• Hold weekly council office hour in various locations
• Quarterly schedule of upcoming committee agenda items
• Email extended agenda every Friday
• Committees provide list of items they like to see in upcoming quarters
• Work with Mayor Nelson to create a protocol for contacting city staff, how long to wait for a
response before sending a 2nd email, etc.
• System for communicating with directors and/or managers, and if something goes south with that,
a way to fix it
• Work on agenda consistency (items put on the agenda and pulled without notice)
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• At committee meetings, update from departments, helps to know what coming next. Could be
written, bulleted update similar to Received for Filing
• Add item to committee agenda “Items for the Good of the Order”
• Requests to council president: submit to Ms. Peterson and copy Council President Tibbott
• When responding to constituent emails, do not bcc council if not informational
• More realistic time estimates for agenda items
• Have a visible timer running during agenda items
• Hold work session, study session and/or committee of the whole at strategic times during the year
in Brackett Room
• Schedule 10 minute break halfway through council meetings or at 1½-2 hour mark.
Ms. Peterson suggested councilmembers email the staff person they want a response/action from and cc the
people they want to keep in the loop. When an email is sent to several staff members, no one know who
they should respond. Be specific about the topic in the subject line.
Council President Tibbott advised another retreat will be held in March, half of the day with staff and half
without. He will identify a speaker.
7. ADJOURN
The retreat was adjourned at 4:22 p.m.
____
SCOTT PASSEY, CITY CLERK