2021-05-26 Planning Board MinutesCITY OF EDMONDS PLANNING BOARD
Minutes of Virtual Meeting
Via Zoom
May 26, 2021
Chair Rosen called the virtual meeting of the Edmonds Planning Board to order at 7:00 p.m.
LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES
We acknowledge the original inhabitants of this place, the Sdohobsh (Snohomish) people and their successors the
Tulalip Tribes, who since time immemorial have hunted, fished, gathered, and taken care of these lands. We
respect their sovereignty, their right to self-determination, and we honor their sacred spiritual connection with
the land and water.
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT
Mike Rosen, Chair
Richard Kuen
Judi Gladstone
Matt Cheung
Todd Cloutier
Roger Pence
Alicia Crank, Vice Chair
BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT
Nathan Monroe (Excused)
STAFF PRESENT
Rob Chave, Planning Division Manager
Leif Bjorback, Building Official
Angie Feser, Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services Director
Steve Duh (Consultant)
Mike Rosen: It's 7:00. So, we'll call our May 26 meeting to order. I'm going to do things a little bit out
of order tonight since we are welcoming two new members. So, let's start with rollcall,
and then let's do a round of quick introductions.
[Roll call was completed, with Nathan Monroe having an excused absence]
[Todd Cloutier read the Land Acknowledgement]
Mike Rosen: Thanks, Todd. So, now we have approval of the minutes. We did not have our minutes at
the last meeting for April 28th. So, we have two sets to approve. Did anybody have any
questions, concerns, changes for the April 28th minutes? Hearing none, can I get a motion
to approve?
Roger Pence: So move.
Mike Rosen: Second. Thanks, Todd. Any discussion?
Alicia Crank: They're different.
Mike Rosen: All right. All in favor of approving April 28th say "Aye" or raise your hand.
[The April 28th minutes were approved unanimously]
Mike Rosen: So, May 12th. Let's sort of discuss. They are different, and significantly different. Instead
of notes, they look like transcripts. So, Rob can you explain the difference, and if this is
something that will be long term?
Rob Chave: Our minute taker, I think she'd probably been doing minutes for something like 20 plus
years, decided to retire. So, we actually contacted — or tried to contact — other minute
takers that we knew of in the area, but we got no responses at all. We've therefore gone
in a different direction. There are several companies that allow you to upload video or
audio, and they produce a transcript. So, we've been experimenting with those to see
how they work. The result is less expensive than our minute taker was, but what you got
before was an edited, summarized version that in many ways is easier to read. This new
version is certainly more complete, but not as nicely summarized.
So, at least for the time being this is probably the way we're going to go, but we may do
a request for qualifications or proposals to see if somebody in the area will respond. But
at this point, this is our best option. This is what we're doing for Architectural Design
Board, Planning Board, and Historic Preservation.
Mike Rosen: Thanks, Rob. So, I think we should also, at some point, if this does become long term,
check in with the council, since they have said to us that they use our minutes as a way to
inform our opinions and discussions as it informs their decisions. So, we might want to
check in and see if there's anything different we can provide them, or if they're happy
with the new format. So, we'll stand by for that. So, May 12th, does anybody have any
concerns or questions about those minutes?
Alicia Crank: I move that we approve them.
Todd Cloutier: Second.
Mike Rosen: Thanks, Todd. Any discussion? All in favor?
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April 28, 2021 Page 2
Judi Gladstone: I don't have anything to say in particular about the May 12th meeting notes, because I
wasn't there. But I know through my work, I've always been pretty particular about notes
because they can be really important in terms of reflecting back on what you have
discussed. And I have a little bit of concern of continuing with the transcript that we are
supposed to approve, because that means I'm reading all 18 pages of that. And I,
personally, am never going to remember what everybody said. And if I'm approving
something, I want to be sure that I think it's accurate. So, I don't mean to raise issues on
the get go, but I personally would not like to be in a position of having to approve a
transcript.
Alicia Crank: I totally agree with you, Judi. What I will say that, anecdotally, since meetings have been
moved to the virtual setting, they tend to go longer, and I've seen that in other groups
that I've been in. I'm actually not surprised, from what Rob said, about not getting any
takers, because a traditional in -person meeting that might go an hour and half or two
hours are now going several because people are coming in late or being verbose or
anything like that. So, I'm not necessarily surprised that there were no takers to take on
the role in virtual meeting because they have been trending longer, but I totally
understand what you're saying.
Rob Chave: Yes. And just for clarity, you're not being asked to approve a transcript. They're still
portrayed as minutes.
Matt Cheung: Yes. I would just echo what Judi says as far as— It is a lot easier to read minutes as opposed
to almost basically a transcript, review it. And I think if someone else was trying to review
it, it'd be a lot easier to get the summation, but I understand the situation that you don't
have anybody right now, but it is definitely preferable. I thought reading the old minutes
was much easier to get to the core points of what we were trying to get across.
Mike Rosen: Thank you, Matt. I think we had a motion and a second to approve. If there's no further
discussion, all in favor of approving, say "aye" or wave at me. Minutes are approved. So,
we'll now announce the agenda. First, we'll have audience comments, then review and/or
explore the director's reports if there's any comments or questions.
Natalie Seitz: I'm commenting tonight on the city's intent to regulate the maintenance of trees on
private property which I understand this group will considering. I would like to speak
tonight specifically about the relationship between trees and property insurance and the
right of way. In general, my understanding is that damage that is reasonably foreseeable
is the liability of the property owner. This includes damage caused by trees.
As I had previously commented, there are many ways that trees can cause hazard and
damage, including damage to sidewalks which may result in injury, falling limbs on
property such as cars and houses which also may result in injury. Trees can also cause
damage to foundations, water, wastewater, and storm sewer lines. As I have also
previously commented, homeowners may already be required to pay additional
insurance premiums for trees on their property. Once it becomes reasonably foreseeable
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April 28, 2021 Page 3
that a tree will cause damage, property owners must address the hazard or risk losing
insurance coverage for damages created by the tree.
Addressing the hazard often means removal. Removal, while not cheap, just does
definitely address the hazard for the property owner and the insurance company at what
is, in many cases, the minimum cost to the homeowner. I do not believe that the city
should in any way fine, fee, or hinder a property owner from addressing hazards to the
satisfaction of their insurance carrier. As a side note, in these cases, tree replacement
clauses are typical and are why I've previously and ardently commented that the city's
proposed actions had the effect of placing a permanent encumbrance on certain less
developed properties in the city.
One area that private property insurance does not cover is adjacent public land. The
requirement for property owners to maintain vegetation including trees on adjacent
public property is, in my view, a significant liability for affected property owners. This is a
known impact in the city of Seattle and has been the subject of a "Get Jesse" segment. I
was disheartened to learn about the city of Edmonds Code Chapter 9.2.060 and 18.85
from the Urban Force Management Plan.
In my experience, property owners do not receive notice of these responsibilities during
the purchase of a house, and they do place a significant burden and liability. Case law
including Wuthrich versus King County has found that roadside vegetation is part of the
roadway, and lack of maintenance can create liability for traffic accidents. Private
property owners are not public works employees and have limited knowledge of the
Manual for Uniform Traffic Control or other guidelines that are required near roadways.
And again, adjacent property owners do not insure public property against potential
damages or persons who may claim an obstructed view after a traffic accident. Safe
roadways are a city responsibility. If the city is serious about maintaining trees on the
landscape, the city can start with its property and right of way. It would certainly be a
starting point in trading that this a tree "community resource" as a community
responsibility. Thank you for your time and consideration of these comments.
Mike Rosen: Thank you. We all received the director's report. And I guess one of the things that was
not into it that was recently announced was Shane's retirement effective July 1st, if you
didn't know that. Are there comments or questions on the director's report?
Alicia Crank: So, just a comment about the Sound Transit piece, putting on my commissioner's hat for
the Airport Commission. We are actually going to have a Sound Transit presentation at
our July meeting. We meet the fourth Thursday of that month, so the date is escaping me
at the moment. But they did a great presentation around their extension into Snohomish
County at the Snohomish County Tomorrow's steering committee meeting back in
December.
And so, I requested that they do something similar for the Airport Commission since part
of it is the connection to Paine Field as well as other neighboring communities around
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April 28, 2021 Page 4
Edmond. So, I just wanted to drop that little tidbit in there. It was a very good
presentation. It was succinct but detailed. And so, if you're interested in hearing more
about what they're going to be doing in this area and north, maybe put that on your
calendar, but I'll get the exact date for you. But it's the fourth Thursday in July at 6 p.m.
Mike Rosen: Thanks, Alicia. Any other comments? Yes, Roger.
Roger Pence: I noticed under the Snohomish County Tomorrow listing on Shane's report, the buildable
lands report update that they apparently received at their May 13th meeting. I have a
particular interest in that topic as it pertains to the city of Edmonds, because it will be a
significant factor in the evaluation and handling of the Housing Commission work when
we get to that point. So, I'm hoping we can be briefed up on that at some appropriate
time. Thank you.
Mike Rosen: Thank you for that, Roger. Agreed. Any other comments or questions related to the
director's report? All right. Thanks, everyone. So, our next agenda item is a development
activities report. Is that Leif?
Leif Bjorback: Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. My name is Leif Bjorback. I am the building official for
the Development Services Department.
Rob Chave: So, this is the development activities report. We do this each year, highlighting some of
the projects that are going on in the city. Customer service is No. 1 for us, because we're
dealing with customers constantly, ranging from builders and contractors to homeowners
and businesses.
So, there were huge changes this past year, as you can imagine, with the pandemic taking
hold. We had to really shift gears in a hurry back in March of last year. We had some sort
of an online presence already, but actually it was fairly modest. What we had to do was
change completely to do everything online and electronically. Where we used to take in
and stamp plans, paper, and that sort of thing, everything is digital these days.
All the reviews, the correspondence, everything else is a digital document now and is
stored electronically with the permit. Operating with a skeleton in -office staff, we have
protocols to follow when we're in the office. Basically people have set up home offices
with city equipment, and we are working on our office computers but remotely through
equipment that the information services division provided to each employee who's able
to work remotely.
And what's that meant is — in combination with upgrading our permitting software,
changing how the interface goes online, everything is digital at this point, and we expect
that that's going to continue into the future. We have virtual meetings. We still have what
we call development review committee meetings, where somebody who wants to find
out whether what they're thinking of doing is feasible or how the city codes would work,
we have a remote meeting with them and they're able to discuss their plans with
representatives of the different departments.
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Leif Bjorback: So, if you remember a year ago or more when the first proclamation came out from the
governor's office, it really stopped all construction projects that were not deemed as
essential. And essential meant being related to food supplies, grocery stores, auto repair
shops, medical facilities, and that type of thing. And so, you'll see that our numbers of
inspections went way down because only a few projects that we had were permitted and
considered to be essential facilities.
Rob Chave: And one other thing the city did was extend the life of permits for another four months,
understanding that people were going to be thrown off by the pandemic. This slide
actually shows a portal. It's called MyBuildingPermit.com. They're a consortium of cities.
Leif Bjorback: There's 18 or 19.
Rob Chave: These are mostly in King County, but several in Snohomish County as well, and they share
a common portal. We joined this, and it's kind of the front end to our permitting system,
and it enables people to have a common interface and entry into the various jurisdictions'
permitting systems. And in some cases, they're builders or contractors who work in
multiple jurisdictions, and it very much eases the way for them to be able to operate with
different cities.
Staff participates in various committees with this consortium trying to further develop
and improve that interface over time. This portal is connected into our own internal
permitting system, which is called TRAKiT, and that operates only within the city on our
network, but the interface is to this online portal.
Leif Bjorback: You want me to talk about the streateries, Rob?
Rob Chave: I think mostly you have a lot more to do with it. It was a pretty quick city response,
realizing that restaurants were no longer able to seat patrons within their restaurants.
And so, just like other cities throughout the region, the city passed a series of ordinances,
kind of interim emergency ordinance to allow this type of thing to occur in the right of
way. And there was a cap on it up to 20 streateries. I think there haven't been that many
permitted so far, 15 so far up to date.
The business owners actually organized and came up with a common setup so that there
could be some uniformity to it, which also reduced the costs and the stress of each
business having to reinvent the wheel for each streatery that they wanted to do. So, I
think if you've been around downtown especially, you've noticed these things, and I think
they've been quite successful.
Roger Pence: A quick question on the streateries, Rob. Are those to be temporary and will go away at a
certain time? And if so, when is that estimated to be?
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Rob Chave: I believe the ordinance expires at the end of this year. It will be determined whether
anything like it continues in the future, but the specific ordinance the council adopted is
only through the end of the year.
Next is a chart that we update each year. It shows the number of building permits that
we process in the city — that's that red line — versus the total development services
revenue that we get. As you might expect because it was a pandemic year this past year,
our number of permits dropped slightly from the previous several years. But relative to
the long history of permitting in the city, it still is a very high rate. And the revenue, again,
also showed a decline in 2020 versus 2019, but certainly not as steep a decline as — It
didn't go back to where it was, say, 10 years ago.
So, all that's to say that we are still very, very busy. This shows you just an encapsulation
of numbers of permits, though we did a lot more single family — new single family in
particular —this past year. We still had a couple of large projects resulting in 200-plus units
of apartment or condominium development. And the bread and butter of what we do is
actually the small stuff: additions, alterations, especially mechanical and plumbing
permits.
Mike Rosen: Rob, I was curious in this one that the number went up in 2020, but the average dropped
like eight percent, and I was curious what might cause an average drop of eight percent.
So, if you take the number, the $13 million valuation, divide by 32, and that gives you the
average of for 2020 $413,000.00. The year before, it was $449,000.00. So, that's an eight
percent drop. So, there was more activity, but valuation per was less, and I was just
curious if —
Leif Bjorback: It's really important to remember when you take a look at these numbers that fluctuate
year to year, it's more important to consider the trend over time. And so, you might have
a number of permits being reviewed, or large projects being reviewed, in any particular
year. And then, the revenue actually is delayed until the following year. And so, it naturally
goes up and down. And these numbers can be skewed quite easily by one big project, and
we'll show you some of those bigger projects on the slideshow.
Rob Chave: Yes. And you especially see it on that line that summarizes apartments/condos. The first
takeaway from that is we don't have a lot of permits. There were only four in 2019 and
two in 2020, but the number of units can change a lot. The project on Highway 99 had a
very large impact in terms of valuation, number of units, and so forth. Edmonds is largely
an infill community, so a couple of large projects can make a huge impact on total revenue
and valuation that comes in, in any particular year.
And this is just some statistics on engineering. Again, very slight decline on number of
permits issued in 2020. This isjust a quick summary of some of the impact fees and facility
charges which are utilities that the city saw in 2020. Solar permits. Back in 2014, 2015,
there were a couple of significant campaigns to really encourage people to "solarize" in
the community, and we saw a significant rise in the number of solar installations that
occurred in those years. More recently, there's solar permitting has decreased from those
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April 28, 2021 Page 7
big bumps during those concerted campaigns, but we're still seeing a steady stream of
solar installations going forward at a higher level than before the solar campaigns.
Leif Bjorback: So, you can see that that 7,000 figure for numbers of inspections performed by
Development Services staff. So, we inspect from water heater change -outs and furnaces,
reroofs, remodels, additions, new homes, schools, commercial buildings, lots of tenant
improvements. So, we do a wide variety of building inspections, and then engineering
staff does a lot of inspections like you see on the curb forms there next to the roadway.
So, this slide just gives you an idea of what happened last year compared to the year
before, and this 17.4 figure in 2020 was definitely COVID impacted.
And so, we were just about 24 inspections a day, and last year dropped because we had
inspectors that were doing rainy day projects and not doing inspections all day. I believe
the next slide is going to show us the COVID dip — that's what I like to call it — in March,
April, and May. But you can see when construction got released and allowed to continue,
we bounced up back to the June number of 462 inspections in that particular month. And
then, we basically returned to normal numbers having missed a number of inspections
during the dip.
So, now, we're going to start showing you some slides of development around town.
You'll notice that the projects are clustered either in the downtown area or in the south
part of the city along Highway 99 and Edmonds Way. We're going to start off with a
sampling of new single-family homes.
I can say if you were to drive around the city, you might notice new homes being built all
throughout the city. And at the time we put this slideshow together a few weeks ago,
there were actually 48 issued permits in active status for new single-family homes. And if
you recall that one chart we were just looking at, there were 26 in one year, 32 the next,
and right now, we're on pace to do between 40 and 50. So, that number, when you see it
next year, will be increased.
There's more examples of typical styles of construction. Here's a new townhome project
breaking ground on 82nd Place near Five Corners. Now, let's move from residential into
our list of significant commercial projects starting with a couple that have recently been
completed. The waterfront center received its certificate of occupancy in January. And
here's Kahlo's Cantina, which is a new Mexican restaurant that just received its certificate
of occupancy a few weeks ago. This building was completely renovated, and you may
remember it as the old Skipper's restaurant.
Next, let's look at some projects that are currently under construction. Here, we have a
four -unit apartment building on Bell Street in finishing stages. The Nyland Apartments on
244th consists of 19 units in two buildings, and that's also nearing completion. Graphite
Studios on Main Street, this will be a community art studio with gallery and a cafe. Main
Street Commons, you are all aware of, I'm sure, driving down Main Street. Looking at the
inset rendering, you'll see that there's actually two buildings that are going to be there at
the end of the project. The one in Phase 1 is a complete renovation of the existing retail
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April 28, 2021 Page 8
building, which was originally built in 1954, and it will house a restaurant and family
entertainment center. Then, Phase 2 will include a two-story office and event space and
an exterior plaza, which is planned as a pedestrian art alley.
And if you drive down Highway 99, you can't miss this project. The GRE Apartments are
going to have five levels of apartments over two levels of parking. Paradise Heights is a
three -building project with four units each, and it's just off Edmonds Way.
This is Kisan Townhomes, and permits have been issued for the first phase of this project,
which will ultimately be 18 units in four different buildings. And I might say that we have
been seeing an increase in townhouse style construction over what we've seen in the
recent past, and I can say that is holding true for multifamily construction in general.
Here, we are going to start looking at projects that are not yet permitted but are in the
pipeline towards obtaining a permit. The Anthology project will consist of 127 units of
independent senior living. Here are some townhomes that are going to go in on the east
side of 99. Civic Field is a city project, and it's recently gone out for a rebid. The city is
hopeful to get them some good construction numbers and move forward with this
project.
Meadowdale Beach Park is a Snohomish County project. It lies mostly outside of the city
as does the project area. You can see by the red line on the map, however, that Edmonds
city limits does encroach partway into the park. And improvements will be made to the
picnic area, the estuary, and the railroad bridge will be replaced. Right now, it looks like
most if not all of the project may be delayed until next year due to seasonal construction
restrictions on some of the critical pieces of that project.
The wastewater treatment plant is in for review for a permit. They're planning to replace
the old sewage sludge incinerator with a new pyrolysis processing system. The Apollo
Apartments on Highway 99 will be five stories of apartments built with modular
construction over two stories of parking, and this involves removal of the Sunset office
building. And the modular construction is something that we don't see a lot of, but it's
going to be a project that's going to be similar to putting a Lego project together. Pre -
finished modules will be hauled to the site and just placed together and then structurally
connected to complete the building.
These next two slides show a couple of townhome style projects. Sunde Townhomes in
238th Street is in the design review stage, and Hunter Townhomes on 215th has actually
applied for their building permits. I think you folks are probably familiar with the concept
of planned residential developments, or PRDs. This one is in the early stages in the
pipeline, is actually — We've sat down with these folks for a pre -application meeting. Here
are a couple of slides showing potential projects being considered by the Port of
Edmonds. Both are likely to take place next year.
This one is a possible mixed -use building. And here is a layout of repairs and
improvements to the boardwalk adjacent to the Edmonds Marina. Westgate Station is a
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April 28, 2021 Page 9
mixed -use building that's under design review. And Woodway Station is a two-story
commercial office building in the south part of town currently in the design review stage
as well. Here's our last project that we have photos or renderings of. And the Pine Park
project is a mix of townhouse -style units and live/work units, which are dwelling units
that incorporate business space fronting on the public sidewalk at street level. The project
is currently in the design review stage of the permitting process.
And this actually brings us to the end of our slideshow. And I might say that — as you can
see by these various projects — development projects in Edmonds remain at a fairly robust
level. Now, we're going to turn it over to you folks to see if you have any questions.
Mike Rosen: Thanks, Leif and Rob. Anybody have any questions or comments?
Roger Pence: If you could back up two slides, I think. The two-story office. That's the old Shell station,
isn't it? Down there south of Westgate?
Leif Bjorback: Yes. This is right on 100th, it's a wedge-shaped lot with a two-story office -type building,
which was the old gas station.
Roger Pence: I'm just wondering, it's a very suburban orientation with the parking out front. I thought
we had moved beyond that design concept and were trying to put more of the structures
closer to the street with the parking behind. Can you talk a little bit about how this?
Rob Chave: Yes. This is an isolated neighborhood commercial zone. So, it doesn't have any sort of a
special plan or special zoning that would do what you're talking about, Roger. It's kind of
a residual that came into the city when it was annexed.
Roger Pence: So, we've only made adjustments in certain zones, and not in all zones.
Rob Chave: True. Now, our neighborhood business district is a holdover from the old suburban style,
and there're a couple of locations where it still holds sway. This is one. Up on Puget Drive,
that little strip up there is another one. Third one I can think of is up in Perrinville.
Todd Cloutier: I'll just mention to Roger that the buildings pushed to the street concept is something
that took years, and it was only done at the big zones like Five Corners and Westgate.
Roger Pence: Well, I guess when you look at little, tiny business nodes like the intersection here that
this building is on, I see potential for a microscale urban village where we could get some
more desirable developments in a way that would fit with the surrounding — the single-
family neighborhoods, the single-family homes — better than this. And maybe that's
something that we should be pursuing.
Mike Rosen: Any other comments or questions before we move into the next agenda item. All right,
thank you. And Leif, you're always welcome to stay, if you'd like.
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Mike Rosen: Now, moving to new business, our first Parks Recreation Open Space work session for the
PROS Plan.
Angie Feser: Great, thankyou. Angie Feser, Director of Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Arts, and Human
Services Department. I'd like to introduce our consultant, Steve Duh, of Conservation
Techniques. He is our selected consultant for our 2022 Parks Recreation Open Space, also
known as the PROS Plan update.
I just wanted to mention that Conservation Techniques has been serving local jurisdictions
in the greater Puget Sound area for 15 years and has completed more than 100 park
system planning projects for communities across the western United States since 2006.
Steve has a short presentation for us tonight about the introducing the consultant team,
going over the project timeline, discussing community engagement, and also then we
have a series of questions that were distributed in the agenda packet tonight for the
discussion that Steve will facilitate.
I also wanted to recognize that Jay Sandstrom and Kim Anderson are joining us tonight.
They're two of our recreation coordinators in our department who have shown some
professional development interests in the PROS Plan. So, with that, I'm going to turn it
over to Steve.
Steve Duh: Thank you, Angie. And good evening, members of the board. Yes. My name's Steve Duh
with Conservation Techniques. And as Angie offered in an introduction, our firm,
Conservation Techniques has been serving public clients since 2006. Our core focus is
parks, recreation, and open space planning. So, projects like the PROS Plan update is really
our core business, and represents probably 95 percent of our work.
So, we're currently working in a number of jurisdictions across Washington, helping them
get ready to submit updated PROS Plans to the recreation and conservation office, which
is the agency for grants and funding of parks and outdoor recreation. And I'll touch a little
bit more on that in a moment. But our firm is excited to work with Edmonds.
And really, at the very front end of the project, we really just geared up about a month
ago — not even a month ago — and we're already making great strides forward in terms of
starting to frame the project and frame the public process that will go a long way in
helping update the goals, the policies, and ultimately define the specific lists of projects
that'll be part of the PROS Plan. So, I do have a presentation. I'll share my screen. Let me
get that up for you. And I'll just walk you through a little bit about the PROS Plan. And
hopefully, you can see the screen. If I can get a nod from someone — Okay, great.
Before I dive into the PROS Plan proper, aside from Conservation Techniques, my firm,
the team also includes a Seattle -based public relations company called PRR. And they are
based in Seattle, but they have offices across the U.S., and they bring a strong public
involvement and communications portfolio to the project. So, we're excited to be working
with them. Our firm's worked with them on a few other projects. And for this project,
they're going to play a significant role in public process, and I will touch on that here
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shortly. So, in terms of just a real high-level overview of the PROS Plan — or the Parks,
Recreation, and Open Space Plan —just wanted to offer a little bit for you.
Because these plans are only updated every six or so years, changing members on the
board or just foggy memories — like mine, sometimes — can be a useful way to just review
some of the basics. So, the Parks, Recreation, and Open Space Plan, again, is a six -year
plan and guide for managing and enhancing the city's parks, open space, recreation
programs, other recreation opportunities, and is really specific to the needs and interests
of the Edmonds community.
The current plan was adopted in 2016, and again, these have six -year windows on them
in part because the Recreation and Conservation Office —the RCO — has a grant program
that requires jurisdictions who are pursuing grant dollars — state or federal grant dollars
for park projects, that they have an updated plan every six years. So, there is a cycle to
having these plans put together and put through a public process to keep them fresh and
current. So, again, the plan is really a policy and strategic guide for the department and
for the city. It will be a standalone plan, but likely be a plan that's referenced in the
comprehensive plan.
It also is a capital planning tool in the sense that it will have specific park and capital
projects that will be sequenced in time with cost estimates and prioritized. So, that would
help inform future budgets and future grant requests and allow the city to be strategic in
community investments for park and outdoor recreation spaces across the city. And last,
it's really also a communications tool. It'll help tell the reader and the community where
the city is today in terms of how parks and recreation offerings are provided, what's
available, but it's also a forward -looking document.
And it will provide that roadmap for telling the story of what the community has interest
in today, where the current priorities are, and provide the roadmap for ways to get there
in terms of recommendations, strategies, specific implementation tools, and again the
capital plan project list. So, the PROS Plan, again, is strategic in nature, and it reallyfocuses
on three core -type questions: What are the city strengths? And what are the areas for
improvement? What are the community's needs now and for the future, 5 to 10 years
down the road?
And where should the city really focus its effort and its resources to implement projects
and to make incremental improvements to the parks and recreation system over time?
And public process is a critical piece in the plan, and we'll dedicate a substantial amount
of energy to making sure we hear from the Edmonds community. Wanted to offer a quick
snapshot timeline, just so you have the sense of the trajectory of the project. As I
mentioned earlier, we're really just starting. And in this startup phase, it's a bit about
getting to know the city, getting our feet grounded and knowing which end is up and
which way west is, so we can look at the water on those nice summer days.
But the early part of the project is also about setting that base framework for moving
through the project. So, initially, it's about developing a public involvement plan strategy.
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April 28, 2021 Page 12
So, we have a clear set of tasks to identify how we're connecting with the community,
and when we're connecting with the community. It also includes taking a deeper dive into
updated demographics to know more about the community today, looking at developing
updated mapping and recreation trend analyses, but also doing physical inventory of all
the parks and recreation spaces across the city.
And the inventory itself will provide a solid baseline for understanding the current
snapshot of how Edmonds is providing recreation opportunities today. And from that,
we'll put together a conditions assessment that, in a sense, grades the city by park, by
amenity, and we can have graphics that really pop out information about where the city
might need to focus some energy and where things are doing really, really well. So, that's
the first phase of work. With that, the next phase is really about understanding the
community's interests and priorities, so looking at the overall needs assessment.
And here, we would build on information we learned from community survey and other
outreach. And I should also mention that the public process — the public engagement
process [audio cuts out] [01:09:16] on top of this, and that's the next slide. So, if you've
got questions, hold on to those for a second. Let me work through the timeline.
But in terms of the needs assessment, it's when we start to kind of scratch away at the
updating of goals and policies, looking deeper at the analyses such as levels of service,
whether the current standards are appropriate or need to be adjusted, and start to
formulate ideas about where the city might want to go based on what we hear from the
community, based on what we hear from staff and this board and City Council. Then, we'll
move into kind of the plan development phase where we really take a deep dive into
priorities and strategies and ideas, what does into that project list, and start to develop
the plan document.
With the planning process, we'll also be doing a SEPA checklist and checking those boxes
that we need to for a plan document. And then, moving into plan review and approval at
the end of the year and into early next year with review by this board as well as City
Council. The intended completion date is no later than late February, in part because the
RCO has not only a requirement for a six -year plan, but a six -year plan adopted at a
specific date. So, the requirement is that plans need to be finalized and approved by or
before March of next year.
In terms of community engagement, we have a very robust public process as part of this
plan. Meeting with this board is one of many steps. And you can see on the graphic that
there are a number of other tactics that we'll be using to really get to know what the
community is thinking in terms of their interests and their priorities. One of the initial
ways in which we're going to do that is through a community survey. And that community
survey is just about ready launch. It'll be live next week, and it's a two -prong attack on a
community survey.
In one vein, it is a random sample, statistically valid, mail -based survey. So, we'll be
mailing out print copies to a random sample at 2,500 households, and they will receive
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the print version with a return envelope, but they'll also have instructions to take the
same survey online if they choose. So, they can save the stamp. Then, we also have an
identical version of the survey that's online only that's for the broader community. So,
we'll stagger the release of that to let the folks who received the print version have kind
of a first go, but then we'll be very heavy in promotions for the online general community -
wide survey.
And that survey, again, is identical, and the dataset is going to be kept separate. So, we'll
have the dataset from the statistically valid random sample, and we'll have the data set
from the general online version of the community survey. So, we can compare and
contrast responses, and ultimately aggregate to just know that a lot of people provided
feedback to the plan.
With the community survey, the city is also taking a wonderful leap forward. I would say
step, but it's more of a leap, in that the community survey will also be translated into
three other languages. It'll be translated into Spanish, Korean, and Chinese, and that's
really to promote the city's effort to want to reach out to and connect with the different
community groups that make up Edmonds. So, the community survey will be a four -
language survey, and that will be online. And the community survey in those other
languages will be a way to start to have conversations with members of hose other
language community groups and get their feedback, and hopefully build relationships
over time.
In addition to the community survey, there's a number of other tactics that we're going
to use. We'll have public meetings. The first one will be virtual. The second one may be
virtual. It depends on where we are with COVID, but we're planning the first one to be
virtual. And that virtual meeting will be an online open house where community members
will dial in like this meeting. We have the presentation. We have polling questions. We
have other questions that people can respond to, allow people to chat, maybe small
group sessions, and really dive a little deeper into what we learned from the survey.
So, the first public meeting is really a springboard off the community survey. And then,
the second public meeting would be more geared toward priorities and preferences to
help really refine and define where the plan ultimately goes. While those things are going
on, we'll also be doing stakeholder discussions with key stakeholders of community -based
organizations, key partner, key individuals, folks like the school district, to really get a
broader sense of partnership opportunities, ways in which recreation services could be
provided or are being provided. And it just adds richness to the conversation with the
community about parks and recreation.
Then, we're also going to be doing pop-up event sessions where we show up with display
boards and talk to people at farmers' market or other events that occur during the
summer, but we will also be coordinating our efforts with the efforts of the Highway 99
revitalization plan. So, this project and PRR, our public involvement firm on the team, will
be working in concert with the Highway 99 project to expressly reach out to the
underrepresented communities and, again, communities from those different language
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April 28, 2021 Page 14
groups. So, we're really trying to pack a big punch in doing coordinated planning with
these two projects to really maximize public process during the time.
So, we're not asking folks to come to multiple meetings or engage in multiple different
ways, but we'll do it all at once. All throughout the process, we'll be doing updates to the
city webpage, and for pushing out materials and promotions via social media, et cetera.
And then, like I mentioned earlier, ultimately going to City Council for review and
approval.
That's a lot. And I just wanted to also stress that our primary interest tonight was to get
to some questions and see if you can give us some guidance, as we're just starting this
project, about what your thoughts are about in terms of where Edmonds is today, where
you might see Edmonds six years from now and 2031, what might be missing, and what
the city could be doing more or less of. So, you can see onscreen the same questions that
were provided in your packet, and I will turn this slidesharing off just so we can see each
other a little bit, but I have got my copy here in front of me, and we can just reference
those questions. So, I'm going to end the slideshow.
Mike Rosen: But before we jump into the questions, I'd like to give people an opportunity, if they do
have any questions or comments based on your presentation.
Alicia Crank: I'm wondering, when you talk about doing the community meetings, has there been any
discussion or planning around subsequent meetings being at the very least hybrid? Even
if things are opening up to in -person meetings there are still some accessibility and other
issues that may benefit by having a virtual aspect to those meetings, so that those who
couldn't normally participate could still do it.
Mike Rosen: Yes. That's a great question, and our scope does accommodate the idea of hybrid or in -
person sessions as allowed through COVID protocols. So, our hope, obviously, is to be in
front of people and talking one-on-one as well. So, those are just more rich and more
interesting conversations, sometimes, than through the computer.
Alicia Crank: Absolutely. I miss being around people, too. But then, also, working with persons with
disabilities, they felt much more connected to things over the past year or so because
they've been able to attend meetings virtually, where that wasn't an option before. So,
my hope is that that doesn't go away even when we get to the point of being able to meet
in person.
Richard Kuen: I think Alicia brings up a really good point. I think we all want to be back to in -person
meetings. I think we would benefit by having virtual attendance as an option for not only
people with disabilities, but also for young families at home. I've got a young family, and
we talked to a lot of other families that just aren't as engaged because they can't. But
through this pandemic and through the adoption of Zoom or whatever these different
types of video chats are, they've been able to be more engaged. So, I would really like to
see that as an option. I would love to be in person, obviously, but I think that having that
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as an option makes a lot of sense. And I think you'll get a lot more people, especially
talking about parks and whatnot, engaged with that as an option.
Mike Rosen: Thank you. I have a request and a question. The request would be that things I have heard
in the past are — And first, let me say, that is a very robust public engagement process,
and thank you. That is, in my opinion, a good example of what we ought to be doing more
of. So, I really appreciate the different methodologies and how robust it is. My request is,
something that typically happens that I've heard more than once, is at the end of a
process after a robust public engagement process is, "I didn't know. I didn't get a chance,
and I have strong opinions about that."
So, my request would be that that be sort of set up as a goal, words we won't hear. So,
even though you offer those opportunities, if people don't know they exist, we've failed.
And if they aren't convenient to them, we failed. So, that would be the request, is that
somewhere in there is a goal that we don't hear those words, and that we all win the
lottery, and the sun rises in the east. My question is related to the statistically valid survey.
Most surveys are — regardless of how you reach out to people, they're self-selecting.
So, I am wondering if you will be doing — because of the diversity of the community — and
my guess is you want to do a lot of crosstabs like by neighborhood or by gender or by if
there are kids in the home or by economic capabilities or whatever language — that you
will need to make each of those crosstabs statistically valid and to make sure that you are
representing the population as it is. Will you be doing quotas and/or waiting to make sure
that we aren't just relying on the self-selection to analyze the data?
Steve Duh: Yes, great question. And as far as the demographics, the survey will capture certain
demographics to help us with subgroup analysis. So, we'll be looking at households with
children under 18, what region of Edmonds do you people live in, and a few others. So,
we will have that ability to do those crosstabs against those subgroups. So, that's that.
And then, with regard to waiting, we'll look at waiting depending on the responses. So,
we can only wait to the degree we have strong responses per subgroup or per category
that we're really trying to analyze against.
And our experience actually over the last several years with doing surveys of this nature
is that we're typically getting around 20, 22 percent response rate on our mail surveys.
So, we are getting generally 400 to 500 responses from the mail survey, so well above the
300 you typically need to meet bare minimum, five percent, plus or minus factors. So,
that's a good thing, and that enables us to look a little deeper into those subgroups to
make sure we've got a balanced representation from that community.
Angie Feser: I just wanted to add one little piece to that, too. On the survey, we have a map that people
self -identify where they reside. And we have five zones, and those are broken up and the
edges are based on census tracks. So, we have a whole other layer of data, too, that we
can apply to survey results as well. So, we were pretty strategic about that as well.
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Judi Gladstone: Yes. So, having gone through the survey on the housing commission and a lot of that, it
was all exclusively self-select. I'm just wondering how you're going to weigh how you're
going to consider the self-select versus the random — statistically random, because I think
it can really skew the results. And will you be doing the same kind of tabs just to make
sure one doesn't end up magnifying something because you've got an active group that
weighs in versus a silent group that doesn't say anything?
Steve Duh: Yes, good question. And part of the reason we keep data in separate buckets, per se, is to
accommodate the analysis between the general public online version and the targeted
random sample. So, as we look through the data, we will be comparing the two data sets,
and we'll call out those areas where there's a statistical difference in responses between
one group versus another group in those answers.
Matt Cheung: Yes. Just to reinforce the importance of really getting a good variety of responses. I recall
back when we were doing a survey, I think for Civic Field? And I think the vast majority of
all of the responses, all were about how important the petanque was to our city. We had
probably about 10 or 15 people. And based on the survey, you'd probably think that our
city was in love with petanque. It was a very vocal group, and they were all very active.
And so, they got their message across, but I don't think we had enough participation, for
example other active groups who were pushing their activity. And so, we just heard a lot
of people pushing for one thing.
Mike Rosen: Thanks, Matt. So, we want to make sure that these guys leave with information that they
can use, and they sent us — Hopefully, you all did your own homework. They sent us the
five questions in advance. I will point out that even though they claim it's five questions,
there were 12 question marks. So, we do need to be somewhat tight in our responses to
these.
And I'll remind you that, also, you don't have to be brilliant immediately tonight. As you
think about it or as our discussion spawns other ideas, you can please send additional
comments to these questions to Angie by the end of the week by Friday. So, with that —
and I would also recommend that we do these one at a time, so we don't drift, and it's
easy for you guys to understand. So, Steve, did you have a specific way you wanted to go
through it or —?
Steve Duh: Let's just go through it in order. So, the first pairing of questions is really about value, and
what do you value about Edmonds parks, recreation programs, and other open spaces.
And then, separately, what kind of memories do you want to have residents hold about
the city's recreational offerings and its resources. So, what does Edmonds mean to you
for parks and recreation effectively.
Todd Cloutier: For me, one of the key draws when I first moved here was just the abundance of parks. It
didn't have — not all the biggest parks. It's not Central Park. You're not going to go riding
horses. But just to be able to take my kids down the street. I don't have to get in my car
and drive to go to a park. Every neighborhood should be able to walk to a park, and I think
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that's a key thing, a metric we almost meet. And that's one we should make sure we stick
to and even try to improve in those few places we don't.
Richard Kuen: Kind of along the lines, I'd just add on to that. I wrote down "community." That's the
biggest thing. And I guess you can define it a bunch of different ways, but I feel like in our
community — I live in Seaview neighborhood, and Seaview Park was redone. And when
that was redone, we used to take our kids. My wife and I used to take our kids there. And
there was a sense of community because there's a lot of people that could walk there,
but once it was redone, it just revitalized it. And it's amazing how many more families
have come and stayed at the park and have conversed, that go to different schools and
whatnot. So, I would just say community. That's what I would love to get out of it.
Judi Gladstone: For me, it's some of the gems of the city. The first one that comes to my mind is the Yost
Pool and Park, amazing trail in the middle of an urban area. And the other is the beach
where we can feel like we're hanging out and we can spend the day there. And I live in a
parks desert. I cannot walk to a park. So, those parks become more valuable.
Alicia Crank: Judi stole my word. I was going to say "park desert." As someone who used to live, who
spent seven years at 236th and 99 for seven years, I appreciated that I could get in a car
and in five minutes be at one of those great parks or be at the water. I loved that, but it
was not a walkable situation. So, I think I value the fact that it was somewhat close by and
that there was an abundance of it and there was water. You have the waterparks and
stuff, too. So, I love the diversity. I value the diversity of the parks and open space, but
definitely would like to see a bit more spread out, especially with the previous
presentation.
Like I said, I lived at 236th and 99, so I saw the big crane of the production as being done
at 234. 1 saw that all day. And to know that the Sunset Building, which is across the street
from where I used to live, is also going to go through construction soon. So, I think more
now than ever, my hope is that somewhere amidst all that if there's some greenspace
that's created for the number of people that will be coming into that section, as well as
those that are already there.
Mike Rosen: For me, I appreciate the holistic approach. It's not for Edmonds just about park lands. It's
plazas and boulevards and gardens, and it's more holistic in terms of the property. There's
open sites, some land. You guys manage things over water, under water, buildings, pools.
And that through all those different tools that we're calling parks, there are physical —
You're approaching the physical benefits, the psychological benefits, the social benefits,
the economic benefits to the community, the environmental assets or benefits that parks
provide, the social interaction which creates social cohesion.
You are doing education, and you're also advancing the arts and culture. So, I appreciate
that it's not just about dirt. Should we jump into the memories? Yes, Matt. It looked like
you raised your hand. I'm sorry, Steve. Were you going to say something?
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Matt Cheung: I just want to say, I really love the variety that we have basically something for everybody.
We have just so many, and it's always fun to find new things out there that you didn't
know existed just because it was in a different neighborhood. I went to a park, and then
found out there's a zipline. That's pretty cool.
Some people may not know that there's scuba divers, or that you might not know where
all the different dog parks and all the — It's really amazing just to have a huge diversity of
different activities and for all different interests and for different people. For some
people, what things are more for active stuff for some people, and more scenic stuff for
some other people. So, just maintaining a wide variety of activities and environments is
just great.
Mike Rosen: So, let's go to the 1B. What kinds of memories do we want residents to hold about our
resources? Anybody want to go first. I'll give you mine. So, in my experience, when people
tell stories or hold memories, they're either about a personal interaction, a critter
interaction, or a place. Like, "Look at the canyon or mountain or flower."
So, in terms of the memories, my guess is they will be based on similar kinds of things.
And I think that it's usually a, "Here's what happened to me. Here's what made it happen,
how it made me feel." And then, there where. Right? So, that to me — the parks are the
triggers for those kinds of things. And the kind of person I am, I couldn't stop myself from
writing tagline for you, and here you go, "Edmonds Parks, purveyors of extraordinary
moments, memories, and connection."
Alicia Crank: Honestly, when I think about it the memory that I would want the residents to have is
that it was in abundance and it was easy, that there's always a variety. And I think we
have that. And so, the hope is just to continue to have that happen. Because I've lived in
communities where you had to drive to other communities to be able to enjoy things like
swimming and hiking and bird watching. So, I think that's the initial reflex memory. I
would like people to be able to kind of drawn to is that, "Oh. All of this was here. It was
accessible and in my community."
Judi Gladstone: Well, to me, memories are about spending time with people, your family, your friends.
And having places that we want to do that with seems important for parks. And so, to
build those memories or places where you are going to do things with people, whether
it's bird watching or it's playing in a pool or hiking or whatever.
Steve Duh: Great, thanks. And as far as the next question, we don't necessarily need to take each one
piece by piece, but I just wanted to offer a running list of some things to think about. And
feel free to offer your thoughts on any of them. And the next question's really about
thinking forward. So, again, the plan is a six -year plan, but let's just jump forward 10 years
to 2031. We'll be flying our cars around all electric. Everything's great.
But really, diving into parks and recreation. What do you see happening in Edmonds for
active recreation spaces, for conservation and open space, for programs, or for trails or
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waterfront access? Anything come to mind? What vision do you have of the city? Or what
kind of projects would you like to see happen in the next 10 years.
Todd Cloutier: I'd love to see the beach all connected with a continuity of walkways and beach access.
Also, on the beach, I see people out there with their paddleboards and things, but some
people can't afford to have or haul a paddleboard and things like that. Wouldn't it be
great if we had some sort of rent -a -board? You go other places, there's small shacks
where they rent larger equipment like that that most people can't afford or can't haul.
That makes it a lot easier.
So, yes, like Alicia was saying, you make it easy for people to go and enjoy themselves,
like we do at Yost. It's awesome. Huge parking lot right next to the pool, multiple ways to
get in and out of the trails. It's great. But the beach? Not so much. It's hard to get to,
unless you're going to the scuba end. Then you can't get enough parking anyway. And
then, once you get there, you're not really sure where you can and can't go. That just
needs to be fixed. That's the only spot that really comes to mind.
But I also just want to put in a plug for these very small improvements can have a really
big impact. I live down the street from a tiny little pocket park at 7th and Elm. You
probably don't even know it's a park. You drive by. There's just a little dividing fence, two -
feet high, and a couple of trees. And it's where people like me come and just take their
dogs for a quick walk or take the kids out and throw the ball for a few minutes. That's it.
But when the city came and put in a garbage can, you can't imagine the improvement of
that park just because people — you know, dog waste and things like that, food waste,
whatever it was. They didn't have a place to put it. Make it easy. And I know it's more
maintenance dollars to keep that can going, but it's cleaned up that park. And then, they
put in a picnic table and covered up the marshy area with wood chips. There you go. It
made it easy. There was a place in the park that was unusable, made it usable, and also
made it more usable by having seating. So, tiny improvements can have a huge impact in
those pocket parks.
Alicia Crank: I'm going to second Todd on the concept of having a boathouse or something at the
water. I forget we don't have a chat feature here. I was going to put the link. But what it
reminds me of is — again, my former community in Mountain View. If you go to
shorelinelake.com, that's what the city's separate website for that. So, there's like a
boathouse that's on the manmade lake there where you can rent the boards and canoes
and stuff like that. And I think that's honestly pretty, actually more feasible now,
especially with the waterfront center being there now.
Because if you go to the shorelinelake.com site, you'll see, too, that they also had a dining
area where people could go and have lunch and so on and so forth. I think with the
creation of the new waterfront center that it's even more feasible to do something of that
nature. But I'll leave it at that.
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Judi Gladstone: I love the idea of having all that available, kind of like Green Lake. They have a place there
where you can rent it. Yes, yes. That's what brought to my mind. I think that would be
fabulous. And this may be getting into another question, and it relates to my comment
earlier. I really hope that in 10 years that we do have more of these little pocket parks
that are available to al neighborhoods and utilizing the potential partnerships that are
there. So, right near my house, there is a church with a huge vacant lot, and it's the church
where they were talking about doing a low-income development.
And it's like I had this vision of part of the lot maybe being low income, and then having
a park there that can be shared, that integrates the different economic and the different
social and becomes really a tool for bringing neighborhoods together. Thinking about it
around equity, social integration aspect of it as well as what it does recreationally. And I
think schools are another one we're utilizing that. And the recent Madrona renovation I
think did a fairly decentjob of that, because their field and their playground is open, much
more open and available to the community than it was before.
Mike Rosen: I would add under what I'd like to see in 10 years is more of them. We stopped making
land a while ago, and I would love — It is best if they can be in the — We're trying to
preserve land and all the biodiversity protection that comes with that. So, acquisition
would be awesome. And I'm also a very large fan and supporter of the 4th Avenue
Corridor for an awful lot of reasons. So, I'd love to see that thriving in 10 years as well.
Roger, you've been kind of quiet. You wanna —? I know you'll offer it if you have it, but
just want to make sure you're —
Roger Pence: Well, I was thinking I talked a lot in the earlier phases of our meeting tonight. The one
thing that is rattling around in my mind, and I guess it guess it goes with the second bullet
somewhat. One thing that I would like to see in 10 years, or less for that matter, is no
more cries from citizens about the need to stop a development on a precious patch of
forest land or otherwise be asking for — Let me pause and rephrase.
The things like Perrinville Woods, that has had some attention now. There's a prospective
development project on it, 14 lots that would require a huge amount of earthwork and
tree demolition. And it would be nice if that could be acquired and added to our inventory
of natural areas in the city, so we didn't have to have these neighborhood battles in the
future over the development of land that most of us would argue should not be
developed.
Richard Kuen: I think that that's just a huge part, having a place on the beach where you can really utilize
it, renting canoes, renting kayaks. I know Mount Lake Terrace for their park was looking
at doing something like that. I think I might have talked to Steve or somebody about that.
I think that would be just a great addition down the road for us in Edmonds. One of the
things that I wrote down in my prework for this — The city's done a great job, I think, just
in the last couple years of being more inclusive with parks.
I mentioned Seaview Park. And we've seen just a huge, huge groundswell of so many
more people utilizing, and it's just done great things for the community. I know Civic is
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going to be a destination for that, and I think that that's just amazing. I think Judi
mentioned it. Alicia mentioned it. Places where people can come to Edmonds and talk
about memories and things that you're going to remember and think about with your
community and kids and family going forward. I would just like to see that continue, and
it doesn't have to be to that extent necessarily.
But the more that we can keep that in mind for our seniors, for our people with
disabilities, I think it just would add to what we're doing at Edmonds already.
Angie Feser: I want to pose the question around recreation programming, too. That's the R in PROS.
And thinking about summer camps and youth sports and adult athletics, special events,
community events, enrichment programs or environmental education programs, Beach
Rangers and the like. Each of you may have different involvement — different levels of
involvement — in our programs or none at all. But what might be lacking? Do you feel
there's a need in our community for recreation programming?
Alicia Crank: Going back to the aquatics park. I know, recently, at our last Hazel Miller Foundation
board meeting where we were awarding grants, one of the ones that we awarded is a
Salish-focused group that wants to bring canoeing to the Edmonds School District
students. So, they're going to supply their own and do all that, but I think that's an
example of being able to have an aquatic area where you can rent those things and have
access to it, and then build recreational programming around that. So, I think that would
be an example of something future for a recreational program.
Matt Cheung: I always think it would be kind of cool if there is some volunteer -driven classes or
programming where maybe people have something that they specialize in, that they
know that they can actually be — they'd be willing to teach other people. Maybe
something like mushrooms, mushroom identification or something like that, or maybe
you'd want to teach people how to build fires or something like that. Maybe that's not a
good idea. I don't know.
I'm just trying to think of all the different things that maybe we don't need, but an actual
professional, maybe an actual class, maybe someone — people in the community — have
some skill or talent, something that they're really passionate about that they're interested
in getting other people involved in, but they're willing to teach a class or teach some sort
of workshop. And other people in the community can bring their kids to learn how to ride
a bike or something like that. I don't know.
Judi Gladstone: One thing. I think there's a lot of good programs in the city now. And the two things that
come to my mind: One is building off of, and that's the day camp. It is really one of the
best day camps around, but it really needs to be more oriented to working parents,
because I think there's a lot of people that can't utilize the camp because the hours are
so limited. And I think if there were a way to expand on that, I think that would be really
great because it's a really good camp.
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The other thing I wonder about, and I have to confess my ignorance on all the
programming that Edmonds does. So, it could be that it already exists, and I just don't
know about it. But that's expanding the cultural type of experiences. So, my daughter did
Irish dance, and she had to Mount Lake Terrace in Shoreline to get that. She couldn't get
it in Edmonds. There may be singing. There may be types of art that are for different
cultures that people can be exposed to and open up our eyes in their own insular type of
communities. So, those are my two thoughts.
Mike Rosen: Richard?
Richard Kuen: One thing that I know recentlyjust happened, and I don't know ifthis falls into what we're
talking about. If it doesn't, just tell me to be quiet. But I know Y just eliminated the
Penguin Swim Team locally at Yost, and I know that that's been something that's kind of
been on and off. And obviously, pandemic hasn't helped with that, but I think that that's
something that's really important for families and kids and adults as well, but kids
specifically, to have something where they can learn, where they can be a part of a team.
And Klahaya is great. We're part of Klahaya, but it's like a five-year wait to get on to
Klahaya. Right? Having something that it can be community based, I think it would just be
great to get it figured out. And I don't know if it's at Yost. I know putting in a pool
somewhere, obviously, you need that land that Mike's talking about that we've stopped
building. It's tougher to come by. But something like that I think would great to have more
consistency with.
Todd Cloutier: I know recently we stopped publishing the CRAZE. Without having something in front of
people, how do we know if Irish dance is offered? You're going to have to ask the
question, because it won't be in your mailbox. And in our house, we used to just take that
thing and sit down and flip around and say, "Maybe I'll take hula classes." You don't know.
And we would never have those things to even look at without having the magazine in
our hands.
I know it's old school, and this world is supposed to be on demand, but the other problem
is we're not Google advertising our classes. So, how are people every going to find out
about it unless they've lived here forever, and they already know those things. New family
moves in. They don't know that there used to be a CRAZE. They don't even know that
Frances Anderson exists. So, I guess what I'd like to see in the PROS Plan is an assessment
of: How's our attendance going? How did people learn about these things? Are these
people who have taken classes before? And see if we start seeing fewer new students,
we got a problem.
Alicia Crank: There's still a digital divide, too.
Todd Cloutier: Yes, absolutely there is, and a time divide. People don't have time to sit around and ask
those questions and go searching for answers.
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Mike Rosen: I would offer that I really like that you're going to use data to drive these decisions. So,
what are people looking for and wanting? I would also encourage that unless we can do
something better, different, or of better value, we probably shouldn't. And if other people
are doing it, let's provide the gap, or if it's better, different, or better value. And my other
thought was that I'm guessing words you've never said out loud are, "We have all the
time and staff and money that we're ever going to need to run our city parks."
So, I'm also a fan of doing things well, and you do a lot now, and you're going to get an
even longer laundry list. And I'm not a gardener, but a gardener would probably tell me
that you need to cut a really good rose to get a really great rose. So, I think focusing on
the critical few and doing them extremely well. It's not like you're not going to be in
business for a really long time, so sort of a marathon rather than a sprint.
Richard Kuen: Right. I want to tack on to something that Judi was talking about a minute ago, which is
the day camp. I'm a dad. Kids grew up here, and a day camp was gold. And it was really
painful one year when there was no day camp at all, and then when the hours were
changed. So, long story short, as a parent, what I would look for would take the school
schedule, and every half day and every day off, if we don't have something going on, why?
If we don't have something the kids could be doing, why?
Because the parents have to struggle and figure it out, and the school district throws all
these half days on there. And for parents who don't work at home full-time like I have,
how do you deal with that? It's a challenge. So, anything we can do to help that out would
be definitely beneficial.
Mike Rosen: All right. I think we're ready to go to No. 4. So, how do we prioritize?
Steve Duh: Yes. This is all great feedback, and I do appreciate everybody's comments. And I do want
to be respectful of your time. So, I want to do a quick check -in to see how you're feeling
in terms of time. There are a couple more questions, and it's okay if those responses get
emailed to Angie as well, if that's convenient.
A lot of ideas have come out about filling some gaps, being accessible, taking advantage
of the waterfront, taking advantage of the other assets the city has, but there are
competing interests. There is limited budget and resources. So, just thinking in terms of
priorities for the next five years, what are the top one or two priorities you have for the
parks and recreation system that Edmonds offers?
Judi Gladstone: I want to say that I don't have something — What came to my mind was not something
specific like, "I want you to develop the waterfront," or, "I want the pool to be
rejuvenated or what you need to do to make sure it stays open." I was thinking more
about the criteria you might use in order to reach that conclusion. And the two that came
to my mind: The first one is equity and doing — In your analysis, where are we lacking
because of that equity that —? There are some parts of the city that get more than others.
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There are certain populations that get more than others. And to me, that would be one
important criteria.
The other criteria would be opportunities and not missing opportunities. And so, if you've
got some development going on, and there's an opportunity for some parks program or
whatever to go on there, then I would think that would be an important criteria. And then,
the third is — these two are kind of related — is where the partnerships and the funding is
available. Because I think that whether it's business, whether it's organizations, whether
it's an advisory, nonprofit, or whatever, I think that building those partnerships can
leverage what the city may be able to bring to it and make up for some of the gaps that
may exist otherwise.
Alicia Crank: I would echo that. I think there's a number of groups — nonprofits or unofficial groups —
that are already doing some of this stuff that would love to be able to partner with the
city from a resources perspective to be able to deliver these services wider. I would say
to not reinvent the wheel, if at all possible, but with accredited people though and proper
vetting. Yes.
And I would also say, too, anything that has kind of an easy entry point — I know that we're
somewhat of an affluent community, but not all of us are. And especially those that are
in single parent households, even dual parent households, try to make ends meet. Being
able to have activities where it doesn't require a significant investment would probably
be beneficial.
Steve Duh: I guess from my point of view, if there's anything that the city could be doing more of,
less of, or differently, if you want to think of it that way. Again, we've touched on a lot of
responses to all of these questions already. But if there's anything else that you're just
sitting back waiting to jump in on, now is your chance.
Alicia Crank: I'd say it's not a specific thing, but in general, layering. I mean layering of communication,
layering how we're getting information out there. And I think now COVID really kind of
showcased that, is that you have to say something three different ways to get the most
people to know that it's happening. I was a communications major, and that was like the
first thing they taught me. Because some people are visual, some people are analytical,
and some are example -based.
So, I think as we try to grow what we're doing here at Edmonds in providing programming
and communications in general, you can't just do social media. You can't just do print.
You just can't do word of mouth. It has to kind of be this overcommunicating layers. So, I
think what the city could be doing is more of that, more finding those different ways.
Going back to the CRAZE, I understand why they stopped printing it, cost cuts, so on and
so forth. But the issue is that if there were people that were relying on that or not online
all the time, they're going to miss that. So, finding efficient and hopefully cost cutting
measures to be able to layer how we're putting what we're going out there as a city, I
think we could definitely be doing more of, if that makes sense.
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Mike Rosen: My thought on this, on what the city could do more of, is how we make people feel. So,
how do we make people feel comfortable accessing or at the park? How do we make
people feel that they have ownership in the park, that it's theirs? How do we make people
feel that they're welcome in the parks? I think those would be good objectives.
Matt Cheung: I think one thing, a priority for us is always safety. There's parks I have been to — not
necessarily in Edmonds — but we've driven by and did not want to go to, because we just
didn't feel safe for whatever reasons.
Sometimes, for example, the playground equipment looked like it wasn't well taken care
of, and it might be broken, fall apart, or it hasn't been very closely monitored. It's
secluded, and there's not much visibility. There's also been issues with proximity to
parking lots. Because if you have little kids, they run off sometimes. So, you can have great
facilities, but if people don't feel safe going to them, then they're not going to be used.
Steve Duh: Great feedback. Angie, is there anything else you wanted to hear on?
Angie Feser: No, I don't think so. And as Mike alluded to earlier, in the next couple days, if you process
this hearing, other thoughts and things may come to mind. By all means, you're more
than welcome to email me or even Rob. Rob will send it to me. By end of Friday this week,
if you have any more thought, we can wrap them in — fold them into this conversation.
I also want to recognize that Shannon Burley has been on the call. So, thanks, Shannon,
for joining in. She wanted to listen tonight, even though she's technically on vacation.
And thanks to each of you tonight. We very much appreciate your feedback and your
thoughts. This is really exciting. It's getting me fired up about the PROS Plan and starting
to hear from the public about their thoughts on Edmonds parks, and I'm really excited
about this project.
Rob Chave: I will offer that there was one comment from Natalie Seitz who's still in the audience.
She'd like to see rentable spaces.
Mike Rosen: So, thus ends our new business. In the packet, we had our extended agenda, which shows
on the June 9th climate action plan outreach update, and maybe looking at the EV
charging regulations and standards.
ADJOURNMENT
The Board meeting was adjourned at 9:08 p.m.
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