2023-12-04 Special MeetingEDMONDS CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL MEETING
APPROVED MINUTES
December 4, 2023
ELECTED OFFICIALS PRESENT
Mike Nelson, Mayor
Neil Tibbott, Council President
Vivian Olson, Councilmember
Will Chen, Councilmember
Diane Buckshnis, Councilmember
Susan Paine, Councilmember
Chris Eck, Councilmember
Jenna Nand, Councilmember
1. CALL TO ORDER/FLAG SALUTE
STAFF PRESENT
Dave Turley, Administrative Services Director
Oscar Antillon, Public Works Director
Angie Feser, Parks, Rec., & Human Serv. Dir.
Jessica Neill Hoyson, HR Director
Todd Tatum, Comm., Culture & Econ. Dev. Dir.
Shannon Burley, Deputy Parks, Rec., & Human
Serv. Dir.
Kim Dunscombe, Deputy Admin. Serv. Dir.
Jeff Taraday, City Attorney
Scott Passey, City Clerk
Jerrie Bevington, Camera Operator
The Edmonds City Council special meeting was called to order at 6 pm by Mayor Nelson in the Council
Chambers, 250 5t' Avenue North, Edmonds, and virtually. The meeting was opened with the flag salute.
2. LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
Councilmember Paine read the City Council Land Acknowledge Statement: "We acknowledge the original
inhabitants of this place, the Sdohobsh (Snohomish) people and their successors the Tulalip Tribes, who
since time immemorial have hunted, fished, gathered, and taken care of these lands. We respect their
sovereignty, their right to self-determination, and we honor their sacred spiritual connection with the land
and water."
3. ROLL CALL
City Clerk Scott Passey called the roll. All elected officials were present.
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
COUNCILMEMBER OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER CHEN, TO
APPROVE THE AGENDA IN CONTENT AND ORDER. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
5. AUDIENCE COMMENTS
There were no public comments.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 1
6. COUNCIL BUSINESS
COUNCIL 2024 BUDGET DELIBERATIONS
#
DP
CM
Fund
Description
I Dept
$
1
15
Tibbott
Olson
GF
Boards and commission support —
remove $4,100 from HPC
P&D
$4,100
Council President Tibbott explained the Historic Preservation Commission (HPC) has expenditures of
$15,000 and revenue of $12,000 with a net budget impact of $4,100. He proposed removing $4,100 to make
it budget neutral.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
REMOVE $4,100 TO MAKE THE HPC A BUDGET NEUTRAL ITEM.
Councilmember Buckshnis asked if the intent was to retain the HPC gift fund 014. Council President
Tibbott answered yes. Councilmember Buckshnis observed $11,701 is the fund balance in that account and
people do make gifts to that fund.
Councilmember Olson expressed support for the motion because, 1) she did not want Fund 014 to go away,
and 2) there were some additional support and upgrades for the other commissions and this was not a year
to improve services in that way.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
DP
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
2
16
Tibbott
GF
Remove increase for S S S
Parks
$6,000
Council President Tibbott explained the City currently funds Sound Salmon Solutions at $10,000/year
which he wanted to retain. This decision package is a request to increase funding by $6,000.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS,
TO REMOVE THE $6,000 INCREASE IN DECISION PACKAGE 16 RELATED TO THE SOUND
SALMON SOLUTIONS CONTRACT.
Council President Tibbott commented the $6,000 could be added later via a budget amendment if there
were revenues to support it.
Councilmember Olson spoke against the motion, recalling last year when there was a desire to have Sound
Salmon Solutions do more work than the funding allowed, Sound Salmon Solutions did not have the
flexibility to bring on more manpower at the halfway point in the year. Sound Salmon Solutions is a very
affordable approach to labor on environmental projects and it is important to increase their funding. She
recognized that everything was on the table for cuts so she understood why a councilmember would
consider cutting this.
Councilmember Paine recalled this work was funded through the parks trust Discovery program fund, Fund
136, that had a $75,000 contribution when it was closed. She asked how those funds were used. Parks,
Recreation and Human Services Director Angie Feser advised Sound Salmon Solutions is an organization
that the City contracts with to provide volunteer opportunities. The City does not have a designated
volunteer coordinator to provide opportunity for the community to engage in volunteer work especially
related to the environment. Sound Salmon Solutions' support of the Edmonds Stewards allows them to have
regular work parties throughout the park system. The return on investment for the $10,000 that is currently
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 2
funded and the additional $6,000 is tremendous; it allows individuals in the community who care about the
environment to provide many hours of labor removing invasive plant material as well as planting non-
invasives to shade out invasives. The community has indicated they want to volunteer and they assist in
providing great volunteer opportunities. The additional $6,000 helps pay for materials and supplies and
enables more volunteer opportunity to be offered to the public. She concluded the $6,000 was a good
investment.
Councilmember Buckshnis relayed her understanding the park trust fund was closed a couple years ago.
Deputy Parks, Recreation and Human Services Director Shannon Burley responded there was a trust fund
with a fund balance. All the funds in that trust fund were transferred to the General Fund to cover the
Discovery program expenses; the City did not utilize the trust fund balance to fund this program in the past.
The money in the fund balance was to run the entire Discovery program and expenses of that program
exceeded the amount transferred from the fund balance in the trust fund. Councilmember Buckshnis agreed
with Ms. Feser that the amount of money dedicated to Sound Salmon Solutions is unlimitedly bountiful for
volunteers. She will did not support the motion.
Councilmember Nand said she was also in favor of funding the $6,000. She alerted the council and the
public that the Biden administration and Governor Jay Inslee have created a new civilian climate corps
which will explore how it can support efforts like this related to habitat restoration.
Councilmember Chen referred to the trust fund and asked how the City could accept a donation from a
member of the public now that the trust fund is closed. Mr. Turley answered the City is happy, ready and
able to accept donations from anyone for any purpose the council approves and donations are tax deductible
to the donor. Councilmember Chen said he will support removal of decision package, commenting there
are plenty of people who would be more than happy to contribute labor and funds.
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION FAILED (2-5), COUNCILMEMBER CHEN AND COUNCIL
PRESIDENT TIBBOTT VOTING YES; COUNCILMEMBERS ECK, BUCKSHNIS, OLSON,
PAINE AND NAND VOTING NO.
#
DP
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
3
20
Tibbott
GF
Postpone/Remove
Engineering$3,500
Council President Tibbott introduced this amendment, DP20, purchase of a traffic data collector. The City
already has one and the decision package is a request to add another. He did not disagree with updating and
using the best equipment possible, but there is other functional equipment and this purchase could be
postponed to 2025.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
REMOVE DP20.
Councilmember Olson commented this was a very legitimate ask and having two in operation at the same
time would be a bonus for the community. However, the City is not in bonus territory this year so this
purchase could be postponed.
Councilmember Paine did not support removing this $3500 decision package that helps with data collection
for traffic calming devices. The council has had a lot of discussions regarding traffic calming, much of it
related to vehicle speeds. The traffic data collectors track the tube studies and provide information to
determine how big a problem speeding is in certain locations. The collector helps establish traffic safety
standards and provides real time data.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 3
Councilmember Chen said he has a lot of experience with the traffic data collector on 76' Avenue that
resulted in people slowing and paying attention. The $3500 investment is totally worth it.
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION CARRIED (4-3), COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT AND
COUNCILMEMBERS BUCKSHNIS, OLSON AND NAND VOTING YES; COUNCILMEMBERS
ECK, CHEN AND PAINE VOTING NO.
Council President Tibbott said he looked forward to bringing that item back as soon as possible.
#
CM I Fund I Description Dept $
4
Reduce Depart ental Supply Budgets
Council
GF
Reduce Supplies 20%
Council, Mayor, HR, Econ, P&D,
HS
$12,410
Council
GF
Reduce Supplies 10%
Admin Serv, EPD, PW
$30,910
Council
GF
Reduce Supplies 50%
Comm Sery
$3,500
Council
Reduce Supplies 2%
Parks
$7, 120
TOTAL
$53,940
Council President Tibbott explained at this point in the budgeting process, the council was looking at ways
to reduce costs and councilmembers have scoured the budget for opportunities to reduce spending. The
total savings via cuts to departmental supply budgets is $53,940. He requested Councilmember Olson speak
to her suggestion to reduce supplies by various percentages based on their use of supplies.
A MOTION WAS MADE AND SECONDED TO REDUCE DEPARTMENTAL SUPPLY BUDGETS
BY $53,940.
Councilmember Olson said she read all the narratives in the budget book in addition to what she knows
about how departments use supplies. She described her rationale for the different percentages; for example,
the police department's supplies include things like ammunition and ballistics which are expansive and
there is only so much that can be cut. The same is true for parks, their supplies are not just paper and toner,
they include things like fertilizer and top soil and there is only so much that can be cut. The council has
enjoyed paper packets but paper costs a lot so that is one of the ways the council will sacrifice via this
proposal. This amendment and the next few are across the board cuts, cuts that are being made to reduce
expenses, not because the request was unacceptable.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
CM Fund I Description Dept $
5
Reduce De artmental Travel Budgets
Council
GF
Reduce Travel 33%
Mayor, HR, Comm Serv, Econ Dev
$2,000
Council
GF
Reduce Travel 25%
Admin Serv, EPD
$2,075
Council
GF
Reduce Travel 50%
EPD, Parks, Muni Court
$11,455
Council
GF
Reduce Travel 20%
PW
$650
TOTAL
$16,180
Council President Tibbott explained Councilmembers Olson and Paine tried to take a nuanced look at the
budget categories and reduce travel by a certain percentage for each department.
Councilmember Olson pointed out council is not included in this amendment; the council's travel budget
is $500 for 8 people. She acknowledged the percentages are somewhat arbitrary but she tried to be
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 4
thoughtful about what the departments do with their travel budgets. Again, these cuts are being made to
reduce expenses.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
REDUCE DEPARTMENTAL TRAVEL BUDGETS BY $16,180.
Councilmember Paine clarified she was not involved in making reductions to travel budgets. She referred
to budget book page 79 and the travel budget for the police department of $29,310, pointing out a 25%
reduction is not $2,075 when combined with administrative services. Following a brief discussion,
Councilmember Olson suggested coming back to this amendment to give her time to check the calculation.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT WITHDREW THE MOTION WITH THE AGREEMENT OF
THE SECOND.
#
CM I Fund Description Dept $
6
Reduce Departmental Miscellaneous Budgets
Council
GF
Reduce Misc 33%
Council, HR, P&D
$27,700
Council
GF
Reduce Misc 25%
Mayor, EPD, Admin Serv,
Comm Serv, Econ Dev, PW,
Parks
$66,682
TOTAL
$94,382
Council President Tibbott explained the same logic applies to these cuts, determining a percentage that
would be most reasonable for each department.
Councilmember Olson advised the miscellaneous budget is training. The intent was to be nuanced with
regard to the size of the ask or very specialized training like the police and public works who can lose their
certification if they do not complete certain training.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
REDUCE DEPARTMENTAL MISCELLANEOUS BUDGETS BY $94,382.
Councilmember Eck appreciated Councihnember Olson's attempt to minimize cuts or make cuts in areas
with minimal impact. She asked how this would impact any required police department training.
Councilmember Olson answered the council had limited access and ability to work with the directors on
these amendment so it was a bit of a stab in the dark. There is enough in the budget to cover any initial
travel expenses and it can be revisited in 2024 tweaked if necessary assuming there is money to address it.
Council President Tibbott acknowledged percentage cuts are a fairly blunt way to look at budget reductions,
but these expenditures can be reviewed with the directors in the first quarter to determine if any budget
amendments needed to be made. The council receives a full financial report for the previous year in
February which will help determine what budget amendments may be necessary. He was comfortable with
this approach, it was nuanced enough to look at the mission of each department and retained enough budget
to get through the first quarter or first half of year. He expressed support for the motion.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Councilmember Nand asked when it would be appropriate for her to propose a series of fund transfers
recommended by the directors. Council President Tibbott suggested she wait until after the three pages of
amendments had been reviewed.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 5
Council President Tibbott suggested returning to #5 on the list of amendments, reduce departmental travel
budgets.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT AND SECONDED TO REDUCE
DEPARTMENTAL TRAVEL BUDGETS.
Councilmember Olson clarified it wasn't a math error, it was a labeling error. In the third line of #5, the
reduction of travel by 50% should be P&D, not EPD.
Councilmember Paine asked about the proposed reduction in the travel budget for the police department.
Councilmember Olson answered it was a 25% reduction in the 2nd line of #5. Councilmember Paine
commented that number is still not correct because 25% of $29,310 (the police department's travel budget)
would be closer to $6,500. Councilmember Olson suggested considering this on another day.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT WITHDREW THE MOTION WITH THE AGREEMENT OF
THE SECOND.
#
CM I Fund I Description Dept $
7
Reduce Departmental Professional Services Budgets
Council
GF
Reduce prof. serv. 50%
Mayor
$51,500
Council
GF
Reduce prof serv. 90%
HR
$145,800
Council
GF
Reduce prof serv. 50%
EPD
$160,237
Council
GF
Reduce prof serv. 50%
Parks
$228,922
Reduce prof. serv. 50%
Muni court-prob.
$2,750
TOTAL
$589,209
Council President Tibbott explained this amendment is to realize cost savings by reducing departmental
professional services budget by a percentage.
A MOTION WAS MADE AND SECONDED TO REDUCE DEPARTMENTAL PROFESSIONAL
SERVICES BUDGETS BY $589,209.
Councilmember Olson explained this was a line by line evaluation to reduce professional services. The only
outlier is HR which was proposed to be cut 90% versus 50% in most other departments. The reason is with
hiring freezes, time normally spent in that capacity could be available from existing staff instead of by
consultants. The proposed 90% cut does leave some funds in the event some critical professional services
are required. She did not receive a reply from the court so she wasn't certain if their professionals including
the domestic violence coordinator so she was holding off on that possible cut.
Councilmember Paine asked about the 90% cut in HR and the 50% cut in the police department. HR
Director Neill Hoyson answered professional services in HR is not necessarily service contracts to
outsource HR work, it is predominantly third party investigations or mediations to ensure impartiality. It is
difficult to estimate how much will be spent in a year; the amount could be reduced and staff could request
a budget amendment if there were numerous investigations in 2024. Professional services in HR does
include some support for labor negotiations, but that was not carried forward into 2024. It also includes
$100,000 earmarked by council for the REDI program manager as that contract that has not been filled.
Councilmember Paine asked if anyone was available to speak to the professional services budget for the
police department. Mayor Nelson advised there was no one present from the police department, but there
is a representative from parks whose professional services budget is also proposed to be reduced.
Councilmember Paine asked parks about their professional services budget. Parks, Recreation and Human
Services Director Angie Feser advised professional services is the mechanism used to pay contracted
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 6
recreational instructors. When the City provides recreational programs to the community, the instructors
are paid a percentage of the program fees. If expenditures related to professional services for instructors
were eliminated, the program would need to be eliminated. The proposed reduction in parks professional
services would be $228,000 because the recreation program is offset by revenues.
With regard to the previous reduction in departmental miscellaneous budgets, Ms. Feser advised that was
related to program fees that bring in revenue. With that reduction, the related revenues would also need to
be reduced. She said, with all due respect, staff would like to have the opportunity to provide this
information so council can make fully informed decisions about the proposed budget cuts. Councilmember
Paine observed that would apply to all parks programs that require an instructor, everything in the CRAZE
magazine. Ms. Feser agreed.
COUNCILMEMBER OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER PAINE, TO
AMEND THE MOTION TO REMOVE PARKS PROFESSIONAL SERVICES IN THE AMOUNT
OF $228,922. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER NAND, TO
REMOVE HR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
Councilmember Paine explained HR needs to be able to move swiftly on any investigations and she wanted
to retain funding for the REDI manager. Director Neill Hoyson's explanation was compelling; if an
employee investigation is required, it needs to be done right away and mediation services also need to occur
swiftly. She hoped that did not happened often but it was important for HR to have funds available for those
purposes.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER CHEN, TO
AMEND THE REDUCTION IN HR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES BUDGET FROM 90% TO 50%
OR $31,881.
Council President Tibbott said a 50% reduction in HR professional services would preserve most of HR's
professional service budget and any additional funds could be considered via a budget amendment in the
first half of 2024.
Councilmember Buckshnis expressed support for a 50% reduction. She agreed some funding was necessary,
but in looking at trends, those funds have not been used in the last couple years.
AMENDMENT CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION AS AMENDED CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Staff Proposed
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
8
Nov 30 packet
Council
GF
REMOVE this proposed Professional
P&D
$834,000*
page 27 and 117
services carryforward; this would
in budget book
leave the $581,880 funding for
Professional Services untouched in the
original budget proposal.
*NOTE: This amount is a NEW
proposal and was not included in the
2024 proposed budget
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS,
TO REMOVE THE PROPOSED PROFESSIONAL SERVICES CARRYFORWARD IN THE
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 7
AMOUNT OF $834,000 WHICH WOULD LEAVE THE $581,880 FUNDING FOR PROFESSIONAL
SERVICES UNTOUCHED IN THE ORIGINAL BUDGET PROPOSAL.
Council President Tibbott explained he spoke with Planning & Development Director McLaughlin earlier
today who indicated the carryforward amount, $581,880 would fund professional services for the year and
she would not necessarily need the full amount in the proposed amendments. She was comfortable with the
council not approving the budget request for $834,000.
Councilmember Buckshnis advised there is still $500,000 in the 2024 budget for Planning & Development
professional services. She expressed support for the motion because there was sufficient money now and if
more was needed, it could be requested via the budget amendment process.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
CM I Fund I Description Dept $
9
Reduce De artmentaI Communications Budgets
129
Council
GF
Reduce comm 33%
Human Serv/Parks
$1,000
103
Council
GF
Reduce comm 20%
Comm Sery
$13,000
TOTAL
$14,000
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY OLSON TO REDUCE
DEPARTMENTAL COMMUNICATIONS BUDGETS IN THE AMOUNT OF $14,000.
Council President Tibbott advised in some cases council asked questions about budgeted amounts and did
not receive answers. Council is simply making reductions at a fairly low level and that can be revisited via
budget amendments early next year if necessary.
Councilmember Paine spoke against the motion. Communication will be important for human services,
parks and community services. These are important roles in the community to get the message out.
Communications in multiple languages have been added to ensure communications reach everyone in
Edmonds. The investment in communications benefits the community and gets messages out. This is a
small enough amount to absorb to ensure the message gets out. There are some programs the City wants
to advertise including the $250,000 funded by ARPA for small business grants.
Councilmember Olson agreed with Councilmember Paine's reasoning for the increase in expenditures in
past years. Even after reducing the communications budget for human services/parks, it is two times the
estimated actual in 2023 when communication in multiple languages was already being done. Likewise,
reducing communications for community services from $63,000 to $50,000 compared to $22,130 in 2022.
That will provide plenty of cushion for the multiple language requirement and even the extra work to be
done on the website. These are conservative cuts that she hoped council would support this reduction in an
effort to reach big numbers in total cuts.
Councilmember Nand asked if reducing the communications budget would reduce parks' ability to
advertise programs and generate revenue. Ms. Feser answered communications in parks is broad and
includes promotion of the quarterly CRAZE publication which has changed from mailing the full
publication to a mailed postcard to direct residents to the website to look at programs. Over the years the
cost of price of printing, publication and mailing the brochure has significantly decreased. Communications
also includes cell phones used by park maintenance workers. That may not seem like a lot, but those workers
do not have computers so the way they get City emails, communicate with each other and document work
in the field is via a City cell phone. Otherwise they would have to use their personal phone for work which
is not a good policy. Councilmember Nand agreed. Ms. Feser said the department could probably absorb a
$1,000 cut from communications so that is not as concerning as some of the other proposed cuts like
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 8
miscellaneous expenses that have corresponding revenue. She reiterated when parks' miscellaneous budget
is cut, that also cuts revenue because it eliminates pieces of programs that support it. Councilmember Nand
commented given Public Records Act requirements, she would not be in favor of cutting parks cell phones.
Councilmember Chen expressed appreciation for Councilmember Olson looking at this detailed level. If
some translation services are needed, perhaps a nonprofit could help and ease some of the need. As was
pointed out, even after the cut, the budget is more than prior years. He will support the motion.
Councilmember Eck asked if this proposed cut impacted the ability to provide information about human
services. Ms. Feser answered it would depend on where the $1,000 is taken from in the department. This is
the first time staff has seen these numbers so it is difficult to provide detailed information about how the
cuts apply. She would need more time to determine that and was trying to respond tonight with general
information, especially regarding cuts that have associated revenue. There wouldn't be a net spending
reduction if a cut to expenses also reduces the ability to raise revenue.
Councilmember Nand asked if community services included economic development and how this cut will
impact his department. Community, Culture & Economic Development Director Todd Tatum responded
the department has been doing newsletters, translations for boards and commissions, increased newspaper
advertising for public and community events, and boosting posts on Facebook to get the message out to
the community. The reduction was acceptable to him, noting if more funds were needed, it could be
requested via a budget amendment.
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION CARRIED (5-2), COUNCILMEMBERS ECK, CHEN BUCKSHNIS,
AND OLSON AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT VOTING YES; COUNCILMEMBERS
PAINE AND NAND VOTING NO.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
$
10
65
Paine
GF
Prisoner care intergovernmental —
reduce b $375,000
$375,000
Councilmember Paine advised prisoner care intergovernmental has varied widely and has been abundantly
funded for many years. Her proposal is a reduction in the prisoner care intergovernmental line for jail costs.
Jail costs are in four categories, housing, booking, video (court), and medical. She estimated each category
per month, housing is $30,000, booking is $7,000, video is $3,000 and medical is about $1,000 for a total
of $41,000 per month or $492,000 for the year. Assistant Police Chief Sniffen said if $500,000+ was left in
the prisoner care intergovernmental, that would be adequate. She researched the past ten years and did not
see a large increase in bookings. In 2023, bookings were high in January, June and August. She was
comfortable estimating housing at $30,000/month and reducing prisoner care intergovernmental by
$375,000 and adding it to the General Fund for general purposes to help balance the budget.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT, TO
REDUCE PRISONER CARE INTERGOVERNMENTAL BY $375,000 AND ADD IT TO THE
GENERAL FUND.
Councilmember Nand asked if anyone was available from the police department to answer questions.
Mayor Nelson advised there was not. Councilmember Nand observed the estimates for 2023 included zero
expenditure for medical until April. She asked how the proposed reduction would impact prisoner care if
funds were not available and there was a resurgence of COVID or RSV. Councilmember Paine relayed
according to Assistant Chief Sniffen, the police department calls the judge and requests a prisoner be
released so they can get medical care so the City is not responsible for medical care. Sometimes suspects
come in with medical issues. She recalled during a ridealong, officers took a suspect to the hospital after
they were rejected by the jail.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 9
Councilmember Nand asked the legal obligations under the interlocal agreement to refer prisoners to the
jail. Councilmember Paine answered as she understands the agreement, the jail is the provider; beginning
four years ago, they do not provide other services such as electronic home monitoring or send prisoners to
Yakima or the Lynnwood jail as was done in the past. The jail only provides the four categories, housing,
booking, video and limited medical. She reviewed data back to 2010.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
I CM
Fund
I Description
$
11
65
1 Paine
GF
I SnoCom / New World
$1 million
Councilmember Paine advised this is related to SnoCom/New World and is probably the SnoCom 911
system. She asked if there was a contract, noting she did not have time to research it. Mr. Turley said this
is the first time staff has seen this. The City receives an invoice from SnoCom/New World for the full
amount, it is not a contract that varies by hours. He was 99% certain there would not be any ability to reduce
this expense. He offered to provide councilmembers the bill for 2024 for $1 million.
No action was made regarding the above amendment.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
$
12A
65
Paine
GF
Edmonds Center for the Arts —reduce 50%
$25,000
12B
65
Paine
GF
Edmonds Sr Cntr — reduce 50%
$25,000
Councilmember Paine advised one of her proposed amendment was missed which is why there is a 12A
and 12B.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT, TO
REDUCE FUNDING FOR EDMONDS CENTER FOR THE ARTS BY 50% OR $25,000 AND
EDMONDS SENIOR CENTER BY 50% OR $25,000.
Councilmember Chen spoke against both reductions. Both organizations provide tremendous service to the
community. The ECA is the heart and soul of the town and the City needs to continue providing support to
sustain their contribution to the City. The senior center also provides tremendous service to the City; 20%
of Edmonds' population are seniors and the senior center is a lifeline for those people. He did not support
cutting these vital services.
Councilmember Olson said she was not prepared to consider these cuts without additional conversations
with those organizations about the impact of reduced funding. If they could weather the storm and not get
a contribution this year, it might be something to consider, but she could not vote in favor of it today without
that information. She was confused by the labeling, the line for the ECA states contingency reserve. She
was the liaison to the ECA when the ECA borrowed funds and the City guaranteed the loan. She did not
recall that the City was making regular and ongoing contributions to the ECA. She asked staff to clarify the
status and whether the City is making an annual contribution to help support the ECA. Mr. Turley answered
the $50,000 to each of those organizations is a charitable contribution, it is not a loan or related to
guaranteeing a loan. The description Councilmember Olson referenced was probably left over from ten
years ago when it was related to helping the ECA. He offered to update the description on that line item to
be more accurate; contingency reserve for ECA is no longer an accurate description.
Councilmember Buckshnis said the ECA/PFD usually provides an update prior to the budget season but
there wasn't time this year. She inquired about the money the PFD owes the City. Mr. Turley estimated the
balance of the loan was about $1 million. Councilmember Buckshnis asked if the PFD was still making
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 10
regular payments on the loan. Mr. Turley answered they are; when cash flows through 2029 were discussed
at a recent finance committee meeting, it includes annual payments to the City with the loan paid off in
2029.
Councilmember Buckshnis recalled there is one receivable/payable where the City loaned them money and
a loan that is secured by a CD. Mr. Turley answered the PFD began 3-4 years ago paying back the loan the
City provided the PFD. Councilmember Buckshnis asked about the restructured loan with a bank that is
secured by the City's CDs and whether PFD's financials were sufficient to pay on both loans. Mr. Turley
advised the PFD has a loan with First Financial Northwest Bank which was secured by the City basically
cosigning the loan.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she was undecided on this proposed reduction. She is still on the senior
center finance committee although she is not on the board of directors. The senior center staff took salary
cuts this year due to financial issues and they plan to take over the Mountlake Terrace Senior Center. She
was supportive of retaining the $50,000 contribution for the senior center, and as Councilmember Chen
said, the ECA is also deserving of the $50,000 contribution.
Councilmember Paine agreed these were valuable community organizations that the City supported through
the pandemic and financially and in other ways such as staff support and reconfiguring their debt. They are
eligible for grants and she hoped they sought grant funds and she was amenable to offering letters of
support. She wanted to ensure cuts that impacted staff s jobs were not necessary in order to make
contributions to local nonprofits. The ability to quickly recover from this structural budget mess requires
full staffing. One of her main goals in this exercise was to ensure staff did not lose their jobs. Full staffing
will be necessary to recover from this structural budget issue that she envisioned could be worked through
in 2024. She was hopeful these agencies and nonprofits as partners could also seek grants and perhaps do
not need the full financial support from the City this year.
Councilmember Eck observed individuals are eligible for tax deductions for donations to charitable
donations and asked if the City gets any deduction for this type of donation. Mr. Turley answered the City
does not pay income taxes and there is no break for contributions to organizations like this.
Councilmember Nand said she would be hesitant to cut contributions to the ECA or the senior center if she
was not aware they both have robust fundraising in place that has been very successful this year. She hoped
those organizations understand if the council votes in favor of these cuts that it is to subsidize things like
the $210,000 contribution from ARPA funds to the Edmonds School District Hope to fund their student
intervention coordinators, sectors that provide vital human services to vulnerable populations that have less
ability to make fundraising appeals and apply for grants. She was generally in favor of these organizations,
particularly the senior center which provides services to vulnerable seniors.
Councilmember Buckshnis asked to vote separately on 12A regarding the ECA and 12B regarding the
senior center. Councilmember Paine agreed she presented them together but they should be voted on
separately.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT, TO
SPLIT THE AMEND MOTION TO REMOVE $25,000 FROM THE GENERAL FUND LINE ON
PAGE 65 BY 50% OR $25,000.
Councilmember Buckshnis asked if this was related to the ECA or the senior center. Councilmember Paine
advised it was related to the ECA contribution.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 11
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION CARRIED (4-3), COUNCILMEMBERS ECK, PAINE AND NAND
AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT VOTING YES; COUNCILMEMBERS CHEN,
BUCKSHNIS, AND OLSON VOTING NO.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT, TO
REDUCE THE GENERAL FUND EXPENDITURE BY 50% IN THE AMOUNT OF $25,000 TO THE
SENIOR CENTER AS IDENTIFIED ON PAGE 65 OF THE BUDGET BOOK.
Councilmember Buckshnis reiterated the Edmonds Senior Center will be managing the Mountlake Terrace
Senior Center and plan to turn it into an intergenerational center like the Waterfront Center which may be
advantageous to residents on Highway 99. She did not support the motion.
Councilmember Olson voiced her opposition to the motion for the reason stated earlier about the staff taking
pay cuts and that they are expanding to meet one of the needs that has been stressed as such a priority that
the council is discussing purchasing the Landmark property to provide community center services in that
neighborhood. This cut is definitely not supportive of the conversations she has been hearing about the
needs in that area in addition to her desire not to cut the contribution to the senior center if they were
counting on this money in their budget.
Councilmember Nand said she was more hesitant to support this cut than the cut to the ECA because the
ECA recently raised over $400,000 and have a revenue generating model with shows that the Edmonds
Senior Center doesn't necessarily have. However, if this has a negative budget impact, she encouraged the
senior center to make a presentation to the council about the budget impact and request a budget
amendment. She emphasized these would not be permanent cuts going forward; they could potentially be
restored in the future when the City's finances are in better shape, hopefully in the next few years.
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION FAILED (3-4), COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT AND
COUNCILMEMBERS PAINE AND NAND VOTING YES; COUNCILMEMBERS ECK, CHEN,
BUCKSHNIS AND OLSON VOTING NO.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
$
13
69
Paine
GF
Opioid response - reduce contribution by 50%, or
consider replacing w/ O ioid litigation settlement
$25,000
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS, TO
REDUCE THE OPIOID RESPONSE FUND BY 50% AND REMOVE $25,000.
Councilmember Paine commented this is from the opioid response fund which is funded with $50,000-
$60,000/year. She asked if the City was receiving funds from the opioid litigation settlement yet and if
litigation funds could be used to fund this or do they go straight into the General Fund. Mr. Turley said the
$50,000 Councilmember Paine is referencing is revenue, not an expense, to recognize the settlement funds
the City receives. He suggested withdrawing the motion.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE WITHDREW THE MOTION WITH THE AGREEMENT OF THE
SECOND.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
$
14
74
Paine
GF
Reduce technology rental fund expenditure as
DP8, grants specialist didn't move ahead.
$3,000
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS, TO
REDUCE THE TECHNOLOGY RENTAL FUND EXPENDITURE OF $3,000 IN DP8, THE GRANT
SPECIALIST POSITION THAT WAS NOT APPROVED.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 12
Councilmember Paine commented this is just tidying up the budget.
Councilmember Olson asked if this was a straight $3,000 or is it distributed via this fund. She questioned
whether a $3,000 reduction was correct. Mr. Turley answered it appears this is a $3,000 expense in the IT
which would be offset by a $3,000 transfer from the General Fund to the IT fund. It would reduce
expenditures in the IT fund as well as in the General Fund.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
15
101
Council
GF
Reduce budget 5K From choice
Nbrd City
$5,000
Prof services, misc, repair and
Hall
maint
Councilmember Olson said this represented general cost cutting. Council was looking for cuts in all
departments and she was not able to identify a specific line item related to the neighborhood city hall, but
as there are several different categories, the department could determine how to absorb the reduction.
COUNCILMEMBER OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT, TO
REDUCE THE BUDGET BY $5,000 FROM EITHER PROFESSIONAL SERVICES,
MISCELLANEOUS, OR REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE.
Councilmember Nand asked Director Tatum to speak to the impacts this would have on the neighborhood
city hall, especially the direct services provided to vulnerable members of the community. Mr. Tatum
answered a fair amount of uncertainty was incorporated into the neighborhood city hall budget and this cut
could be absorbed with negligible impact on the neighborhood city hall's operations.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
16
81
Council
GF
Reduce Uniform allowance for
EPD
$7,000
administration (not part of bargaining
units) 50%
A MOTION WAS MADE AND SECONDED TO REDUCE UNIFORM ALLOWANCE FOR
ADMINISTRATION (NOT PART OF BARGAINING UNITS) BY 50%.
Councilmember Olson said as a former member of the U.S. military, she spent a lot of time in uniform and
knew how expensive they are. The leadership team is not part of the collective bargaining unit and she
knew from experience that uniforms are replaced often to keep them looking sharp. She felt the team could
get by for one year with a little less instead of automatic replacement.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
I CM
Fund
I Description
I Dept
$
17
79
1 Paine
GF
I Small equip —reduce b $50,000
1 EPD
$50,000
Councilmember Paine explained this is a $50,000 reduction in small equipment in the Edmonds Police
Department. Small equipment is described on budget book page 80 as computer accessories, replacement
of broken furniture. She felt that was a lot of money for broken furniture and suggested reducing it by
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 13
$50,000 and if the police department provides a better description, they could petition to recover some of
the $50,000.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS, TO
REDUCE SMALL EQUIPMENT IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BUDGET BY $50,000.
Councilmember Nand said she was hesitant to approve this reduction, recalling at the PSPHSP committee,
the chief and assistant chiefs have described how technologically lacking their administration is and how
that affects productivity. She preferred to get further clarification from the police department before making
this cut.
Councilmember Olson said she was comfortable making cut at this time. As with all the budget
amendments, there is an opportunity for an amendment process and this is a fairly small amount considering
their total budget and would definitely not put the police department in any mission critical situation on the
front end.
Councilmember Buckshnis pointed out the $50,000 cut leaves approximately $125,000 in that budget. She
expressed support for the motion.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
18
41
Council
GF
Overtime — remove from
department budget
Council
$1,000
Council President Tibbott explained this is related to the possibility of overtime in the council office. He
envisioned the council could get by without paying any overtime next year and save $1000.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
REMOVE OVERTIME FROM THE COUNCIL BUDGET.
Councilmember Olson said she read through the council executive assistant's contract today and did not
see any reference to overtime. She was unsure how this was included in the budget.
Councilmember Nand wanted to clarify whether this would affect the administrative assistant's contract
and it appears it won't.
Councilmember Paine asked if the executive assistant was able to abundantly flex her hours, noting the
council receives emails form her at all times of the day and on weekends. Council President Tibbott said
he spoke with her and learned she has a flexible work schedule and comp time and she actually prefers to
take comp time when needed. Councilmember Paine asked if comp time was straight time or 1.5 time.
Council President Tibbott answered straight time.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
#
Page
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
19
41
Council
GF
Council contingency — reduce from
$25,000 to $10,000
Council
$15,000
Council President Tibbott advised in a belt -tightening measure, he proposed reducing the council
contingency by $15,000.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 14
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER NAND, TO
REDUCE COUNCIL CONTINGENCY BUDGET BY $15,000.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she thought the council contingency was intended to fund the Fitch &
Associates contract. Council President Tibbott explained the Fitch & Associates consultant will be funded
in its entirety from the 2024 budget from professional services totaling $50,000. There is no carryforward
although there are substantial funds left in the council budget that will be swept into the General Fund and
reallocated for professional services.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Councilmember Buckshnis asked if a motion was required to put $50,000 in the council's professional
service budget. Council President Tibbott agreed the council passed the contract but did not identify
funding.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS,
TO ADD A DECISION PACKAGE TO THE COUNCIL BUDGET IN THE AMOUNT OF $50,000
FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES TO PRIMARILY FUND THE FITCH & ASSOCIATES
CONTACT.
COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER PAINE, TO
AMEND TO $45,000 AS THERE IS ALREADY $5,000 IN THE 2024 BUDGET. AMENDMENT
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Councilmember Olson relayed her understanding there will not be carryforwards, due to the City's use of
accrual accounting and not cash accounting. She asked if lowering the amount via the amendment was
incorrect as it included a carryforward. Council President Tibbott explained the council originally approved
a contract with Fitch & Associates with the intent of paying for it with funds in the 2023 budget via a
carryforward into the 2024 budget. Instead, due to advice from Mr. Turley, it will be paid entirely from the
2024 budget with a prepay from the 2023 budget. All the remaining funds in the council account in 2023
will be swept into the General Fund for redistribution. The amount of Fitch & Associates contract is
$44,500.
Councilmember Nand continued to question the timing of this contract. The council already passed a
resolution requesting information on annexation and can access that information for free from the RFA. If
the council is reducing all departments' professional services budgets, the council should delay this decision
until they receive information from the RFA and then engage Fitch &Associates to explore other options if
necessary.
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION CARRIED (6-1), COUNCILMEMBERS ECK, CHEN, BUCKSHNIS,
OLSON AND PAINE AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT VOTING YES;
COUNCILMEMBER NAND VOTING NO.
Staff Proposed
#
Pa a
CM
Fund
Description
Dept
$
20
Nov 30
Council
GF
Meadowdale Preschool
Parks
$36,456*
Remove this DP unless can be self-
supporting.
*NOTE: This amount is a NEW
proposal and was not included in
the 2024 pro osed budget
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 15
Council President Tibbott explained this is a staff proposal that was discussed at some length at the
November 30 meeting. He felt it might be useful to continue the conversation.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
REDUCE THIS AMOUNT BY 50%, ANTICIPATING THE MEADOWDALE PRESCHOOL AT
THE CONCLUSION OF THE SCHOOL YEAR IN JUNE WILL MAKE ADDITIONAL EFFORT
TO INCREASE ENROLLMENT AND THE FEES FOR THE PROGRAM THEREBY MOVING
TOWARD A MORE BUDGET NEUTRAL PROGRAM.
Councilmember Olson raised a point of clarification, and asked if the 50% was half the number proposed
or representing half the school year as written. Council President Tibbott relayed his understanding the
$36,000 represents the City's contribution for the full year. He clarified the motion was to reduce that by
50%. Ms. Feser explained the preschool program is currently proposed to run through June 2024. Staff
proposed to stop the program after that. The $36,000 is the net loss of running the program September
through December of 2024. The program is currently 36% self -recovery; decreasing the $36,000 by 50%
still makes the program not viable, because employee salaries cannot be cut regardless of the number of
children in the program. Salaries and benefits are by far the most significant cost to the program. Raising
fees to cover $18,000 represents $1,000 per family for the 19 children in the program. She summarized it
is kind of all or nothing, cutting the expenditure by 50% still does not make the program viable.
Council President Tibbott said he was undecided, but would like to have more emphasis on filling the
classes. With full enrollment, the annual operating contribution is more like $70/month/student versus
$ 1 000/year/student. There are new preschool options in the area and this seems to be somewhat of a niche
program and for that reason, he would like to see it become more self -funding. He commented that may not
happen in 2024, but it was an objective he would like to work toward.
Councilmember Chen observed there are 19 students enrolled in the preschool. He asked if the Meadowdale
Preschool was competing with other preschools in area. Ms. Feser explained Edmonds School District
(ESD) implemented new preschool programs within miles of the Meadowdale Preschool that are
comparable in cost, last longer and provide lunch which the Meadowdale Preschool does not. In addition,
ESD can also provide scholarships for their preschool program. There has been a decrease in demand for
the City's preschool program at the same time there has been a significant increase in staff salaries and
benefits, primarily benefits due to the policy change to provide full benefits to part-time employees. The
two employees in the preschool program now have full benefits which was quite an impact to expenditures
related to the program which cannot be reduced.
Councilmember Chen observed if the City closed this program, the 19 students would have a place to go in
the ESD and they would get lunch and a better education. Ms. Feser advised a child goes through the
preschool program for one school year so it is not the same 19 students coming back to the program in
September. Every year requires new recruitment of students. The 19 children in the program would
complete the program this school year. One proposal would be to stop the program in January 2024 and
save an additional $60,000. Staff s proposal is to continue the program through June so the students and
families do not have to find a new preschool mid -year. When those children finish the preschool program,
they move on to kindergarten in the fall.
Councilmember Eck asked about the ratio for the program, whether it was 1 staff per 10 students. Ms. Feser
answered there are currently two staff members, a leader and an assistant. The program can have up to 28
students or a 1:14 ratio. If the preschool only had ten students there will still need to be two instructors
available at all times; the staff cost does not vary with the number of participants in the program.
Councilmember Eck observed that does not provide a lot of slack if someone is ill, etc. She did not support
the motion. The families have been informed the program will continue until June. Ms. Feser agreed.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 16
Councilmember Eck commented pulling the carpet from under these families and making them scramble
to find an alternate program does not seem like the best thing to do. Ms. Burley said this proposal would be
adding fall 2024 (September, October and November); staff recommends not recruiting for a new class
starting September 2024. The original proposal in the budget book was to fund the preschool through June
2024 so all 19 students get the complete year but not begin recruitment for next year. A decision package
was proposed to extend the preschool into next year and she believed that was what was under discussion,
whether to continue the preschool in the fall.
Councilmember Paine recommended making a decision soon as a courtesy to the families because
recruitment for preschool will begin in January. She did not support the motion, preferring staff s original
proposal, not the modified version, to run program through the end of the school year and not continue in
the fall.
Councilmember Nand observed this would be first targeted removal of City staff. She asked if there were
employment opportunities in other departments for these two staff members if their positions were cut. Ms.
Feser answered finding other job opportunities within the department was always considered for staff who
are released, but the preschool is a pretty tight niche other than some day camp programming. She assumed
these individuals would probably find a role in one of the many preschools in the community.
Councilmember Nand asked what use was contemplated for the Meadowdale Clubhouse. Ms. Feser
answered it has been used for rentals for social gatherings in the past. It will be evaluated next year during
the comprehensive plan update related to citywide facilities which will provide some answers about the
future of that facility. Councilmember Nand relayed her understanding staff felt the families would be better
served by the ESD preschool programs that provide lunch. Ms. Feser responded that was a difficult question
to answer as it was quite subjective so she respectfully declined to answer. It may be more convenient to
drop off a preschooler at a school that a families' other children attend, where lunch is provided, whose
programs ties into the school's programming, etc. She summarized there were pros and cons to both.
Councilmember Olson said one of her reluctance is the Meadowdale Preschool offers an amenity in north
Edmonds where there aren't a lot of offerings as well as the stellar reputation this preschool has. For anyone
who didn't get enrolled in preschool this year, she announced there were several openings in this program
between now and June. She was sad there wasn't a fight to retain the preschool, but even if the funding is
removed, there is an opportunity for the community and stakeholder employees and councilmembers to
figure out a way to make it revenue neutral and she offered to be part of that effort. Taking the preschool
out now doesn't mean that there isn't an option to add it back in revenue neutral if that is the desire of the
community.
Councilmember Olson recalled discussion last week regarding the labor union component for these two
employees and a possible concern with cutting a program in the middle of a calendar year. Ms. Burley
recalled the discussion was related to reducing their hours; they are approved per the AFSME union as 80%
FTEs and there is little ability mid -contract to reduce the FTE percentage to less than what is approved. In
her preliminary investigation, there did not seem to be tremendous appetite to reduce the FTE percentage
for those two employees midyear.
Councilmember Olson said the discussion is about going to 0% by discontinuing the program. She asked if
there would be any saving in salary and benefits with a mid -year change or was the City obligated by
contract to get through the contract period with those positions in place. Ms. Burley said she believed if a
program ceased to exist, employment for that program also ceased. Ms. Feser said the question seems to be
whether the employees' status can be changed from 80% to 60% mid -year. That would need to be negotiated
with the AFSME union. HR Director Neill Hoyson said a reduction in hours is considered the same as a
reduction in force. It is contemplated in the contract and it would have to be treated the same way where
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 17
the reduction in hours would be by seniority, bumping rights considered within the reduction in force group,
etc. She summarized there are mechanisms in the contract to do that, but it is not as simple as just reducing
the hours. Councilmember Olson anticipated if the program could get to revenue neutral, the council liked
the idea of continuing the program.
Council President Tibbott observed staff proposed this budget item and asked if the $36,000 was to increase
expenditures. Ms. Feser answered the cost is for the program to function September, October, November
and December 2024. Council President Tibbott advised this would be in additional to expenses. Ms. Feser
agreed it would be a net loss for the program. Council President Tibbott said his proposal was to reduce it
by 50% which the council has learned is not useful. It is either 0% or 100%.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT WITHDREW THE MOTION WITH THE AGREEMENT OF
THE SECOND.
Councilmember Paine relayed her understanding was the original budget proposal cut this program. She
asked if the council did nothing, the program would be cut. Ms. Feser answered that is correct, the program
discontinues after June 2024.
#
DP
CM
Fund
I Description
$
21
9
Paine
I Public Art
$139,535
Councilmember Paine observed this is not a General Fund decision package. It is related to the library
public art project and completing the permanent public art banners for the light poles in the International
District for a total of $139,535. The original funding for the banners is in Fund 332. The library public art
funding is from ending cash balance in Fund 117.110.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS, TO
NOT APPROVE DECISION PACKAGE 9.
Councilmember Olson said she was confused by this proposal for a few reasons, one of which is there is a
request for interest from artists out for this project, a welcome enhancement for the poles on Highway 99
in the International District. These funds are accumulated from a combination of construction fees and
cannot be used for anything else and this is a worthy project. She did not support removing the funding,
especially when they does not come from the General Fund.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she was also confused until she looked at Fund 117. The funds are
dedicated via RCW. The Highway 99 International District signage is out for bid, but she was unsure of the
status of the library art project. She did not support this cut as the City obtains money for art projects and
art installations and she wanted to support both these art projects.
Councilmember Paine offered to withdraw the motion, advising it was an effort to trim up the budget and
free up money for other, more pressing projects. She agreed public art was great.
COUNCILMEMBER PAINE WITHDREW THE MOTION WITH THE AGREEMENT OF THE
SECOND.
#
DP
CM
Fund
Description
I $
22
22
Paine
421-Water
utility
Utility Customer Merchant fees — change to
belong to the customer
$280,000
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 18
Councilmember Paine explained this proposed change would be to have the utility customer merchant fees
charged to the customer. She was surprised by this cost; the City is responsible for $280,000 in fees per
year for customers who pay their bill with a credit card.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COUNCILMEMBER PAINE AND SECONDED TO CHANGE THE
PRACTICE AND HAVE MERCHANT FEES OF BETWEEN 3% AND 4% CHARGED TO THE
CUSTOMER.
Councilmember Paine asked Mr. Turley how this would affect his department's work process. Mr. Turley
responded he was not sure how quickly something like that could be implemented. This is the merchant fee
charged when a customer pays with a credit card. If the fee was charged to the customer and they opted to
pay by check instead of with a credit card, processing checks is much more labor intensive for staff. Another
issue is larger customers such as an apartment complex with really big accounts would definitely not want
to pay a 3% merchant fee if their water bill is $100,000 for example. This has been discussed in the past
and it becomes a hot topic with customers. Public Works Director Oscar Antillon said he discussed this
with staff, the City is paying higher fees than other agencies and he would like an opportunity to explore a
lower fee as it was his understanding the fee was higher than 3%.
Councilmember Paine was unsure paying the merchant fee would push people to use checks; she may be
one of the last remaining dinosaurs who use checks. People have gotten used to charging things to their
credit card. She would like to see the funds returned to the water fund to serve the customers. She asked if
the City accepted Discover card which she knew had very high fees. Councilmember Paine restated the
motion as follows:
TO APPROVE DP22 WITH REVIEW BY COUNCIL AT THE START OF DUNE TO SEE IF
HAVING THE FEES RETURNED TO THE WATER FUND CAN BE PURSUED.
Councilmember Olson asked for clarification, whether Councilmember Paine was proposing to cut the
merchant fees from the budget or asking for a report in June about progress toward lowering the fees or
doing something different with the fees. Councilmember Paine responded the motion was to have the fees
charged to the customer and have a report in June to see if that can be started. Councilmember Olson
observed it is not a budget impact but to see what can be done. Councilmember Paine responded it depends
on when it could start.
Councilmember Olson loved this proposal when she saw that Councilmember Paine had proposed it. She
preferred an automated online system where customers can put in their checking routing number which has
no charge or a small charge versus a merchant fee charged for using a credit card. She appreciated
Councilmember Paine bringing this up and having an opportunity to discuss possibly a cheaper option for
the customer and the City.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she brought this forward previously and recalled Director Antillon saying
staff would try to lower the rate or find a new vendor. Mr. Antillon said staff learned during the rate study
that the fees were high, but haven't started the process or discussed it with the finance department.
Councilmember Buckshnis suggested this was something the long range financial planning group or the
council could look at.
Councilmember Nand asked for clarification; if the utilities are supposed to be an enterprise fund, wouldn't
this cost be distributed to rate payers as an administrative burden and use of credit cards is a cost savings
to the City versus hiring staff to process checks. Mr. Antillon agreed it is an enterprise fund and it is a cost
to the ratepayers. The City wants customers to be able to pay by check online, which is not currently
available, but also want to keep rates as low as possible for ratepayers and if there is a way to reduce costs,
staff is supportive. Councilmember Nand summarized it sounds like public works has already identified
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 19
this as an issue and is working on it. She was unsure how direction from the council could move that forward
more quickly; council could just request an update without passing a motion.
UPON ROLL CALL, MOTION CARRIED (4-3), COUNCILMEMBERS ECK, CHEN, OLSON AND
PAINE VOTING YES; COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT AND COUNCILMEMBERS
BUCKSHNIS AND NAND VOTING NO.
During the vote, Councilmember Olson asked for clarification that the motion was to get a progress report
in June. Councilmember Paine answered yes, with the intent of implementation in the second half of the
year. Councilmember Olson asked if the council would be agreeing to a budget impact now.
Councilmember Paine answered no, if the council decided in June to move away from the current practice,
there could be a budget impact. Councilmember Olson said she was supportive of not changing anything
in the budget and getting a report in June about the possibilities.
#
DP
CM
Fund
I Description
$
23
24
Tibbott
I Postpone hiring position
$140,959
Council President Tibbott advised the description is to add one utility locator employee to public works,
funded from multiple funds. He asked if that included the General Fund. Mr. Antillon answered it is funded
strictly by the utilities. The current practice is to send a locator from each utility, stormwater, water and
sewer, which is very inefficient to send three vehicles and three people. This additional locator employee
would save a lot of time, be more efficient and it is funded by the utilities. The position was also built into
the model and accounted for in future rate increase. Council President Tibbott said based on that, he will
not make motion on this item.
No action was taken regarding this amendment.
With regard to item 5, proposed reduction in departmental travel, Councilmember Olson advised the
amount for Admin Sery and EPD should be $8,728 instead of $2,075 for a total reduction of $22,833.
COUNCILMEMBER OLSON MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCIL PRESIDENT TIBBOTT, TO
REDUCE DEPARTMENTAL TRAVEL BUDGETS BY $22,833.
Councilmember Paine reviewed the revisions in amendment 5:
#
Description
Dept
$
5
Reduce Travel 33%
Mayor, HR, Comm Serv, Econ Dev
$2,000
Reduce Travel 25%
Admin Serv, EPD
$2,075
$8,728
Reduce Travel 50%
€PP, P&D, Parks, Muni Court
$11,455
Reduce Travel 20%
PW
$650
TOTAL
$16,180
$22,833
Councilmember Nand asked if employees have to undertake travel for professional development that is not
directly reimbursed by the City, would it be deductible from their income taxes. Mr. Taraday answered
when his business expenses are not covered by the law firm, he believed he was able to include those as a
deduction but he was not present to give tax advice to City of Edmonds employees. Councilmember Nand
said she wanted to understand how employees could still undertake professional development travel if
necessary and hopefully be eventually reimbursed.
Councilmember Olson said the expectation is staff would be traveling less versus employees paying for it
themselves, but certainly that would be another alternative.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 20
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Council President Tibbott advised that concludes the budget items that have been proposed. He suggested
Councilmember Nand propose her budget items.
CM
Fund
Description
I $
Tibbott
016 to
GF
Bond proceeds in Fund 016 to reimburse General Fund for police
and court facility remodel
$400,000
Councilmember Nand explained she wanted to propose three fund transfers recommended by Mr. Turley
that would require three separate votes. First, the General Fund was used to pay for some building
remodeling costs. These are capital costs and therefore a legal use of bond funds. These costs could have
been paid for out of the building maintenance fund, Fund 016.
COUNCILMEMBER NAND MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER PAINE, TO
TRANSFER $400,000 FROM FUND 016 TO THE GENERAL FUND TO REIMBURSE THE
GENERAL FUND FOR THESE COSTS.
Mr. Turley explained the mayor's original budget proposed moving $2 million from Fund 016 to the
General Fund, but the council rejected that decision package as it was viewed as a gift from one fund to
another fund. The bond maintenance dollars in Fund 016 are supposed to be used for capital projects
performed by the City. Spending from the General Fund has been identified that could be used to make the
same transfer that was proposed originally, but instead of picking a number, two activities were identified
that were paid out of the General Fund that could have been paid from Fund 016. This transfer would be to
reimburse expenses rather than a plug transfer from one fund to another.
Councilmember Buckshnis said she was still confused. Mr. Turley explained the costs have already been
incurred out of the General Fund and were paid with non -bond dollars. The request is to reimburse the
General Fund with the bond dollars. Councilmember Buckshnis asked how that happened. Mr. Turley
answered building maintenance is paid out of the General Fund and the old 016 Building Maintenance
Fund. These are significant costs that were paid by the General Fund. Councilmember Buckshnis recalled
the finance committee discussed this last year and identified specific projects that were paid by the General
Fund that could have been paid from the bond fund. Mr. Turley agreed some capital costs were paid out of
the General Fund that could legally have been paid for out of the bond maintenance fund according to the
bond covenants. Mr. Turley said Councilmember Nand separated the transfers into different motions, the
first motion is $400,000 related to building remodeling; a second motion will follow.
Councilmember Nand relayed her understanding these costs could have been paid from Fund 016 but were
paid by the General Fund. Mr. Turley discovered these could have been paid from Fund 016 so her proposal
was to reimburse the General Fund with $400,000 from Fund 016.
Councilmember Olson asked if this was remodeling done to the community annex on Highway 99. Mr.
Turley answered no. Councilmember Olson asked for specifics about the projects included in the $400,000.
Mr. Turley answered much of it was in the police department in the public safety building. Councilmember
Olson asked about the timing, whether the work was done after the City bonded for those funds. Mr. Turley
answered that was.
Councilmember Chen commented when this item came up, he appreciated Mr. Turley's creativity, but he
was concerned with the timing as the costs had already occurred. The reimbursement will be for 2023 and
will not impact the 2024 budget.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 21
Councilmember Paine appreciated the forensic accounting that has been done. She assumed the work was
performed in 2023 and was happy to have the correction reflected in 2023.
Councilmember Buckshnis suggested postponing this until tomorrow when a list can be provided.
COUNCILMEMBER BUCKSHNIS MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER OLSON, TO
POSTPONE TO TOMORROW TO GET A LIST FROM STAFF.
Councilmember Nand asked if it would be feasible to provide that information to council prior to
tomorrow's meeting. Mr. Turley answered Deputy Administrative Services Director Dunscombe would be
happy to work on that tomorrow.
COUNCILMEMBER NAND WITHDREW THE MOTION WITH THE AGREEMENT OF THE
SECOND WITH A PLAN TO PROPOSE THE THREE MOTIONS TOMORROW.
Councilmember Chen asked how much has been spent out of Fund 016. He recalled less than $400,000 has
been spent. He will wait until tomorrow to see the numbers.
Council President Tibbott commented it would be good to propose all the changes at tomorrow night's
meeting. The focus of tonight's meeting is the 2024 budget and this is beginning to sound like a 2023
amendment. Mr. Turley explained, as presented, the transfer would occur in 2024 so these aren't 2023
amendments. They are just like every other budget amendment the council has considered tonight. Council
President Tibbott observed it would be a transfer in 2024. Mr. Turley answered yes. Council President
Tibbott looked forward to hearing more tomorrow.
Councilmember Buckshnis asked if this would be attached to a decision package or would this be a new
one. Mr. Turley said he will be out of the office for three days due to a family emergency. He assumed the
deputy director could prepare the information the council requested and will likely create a decision
package. Mr. Turley referred to the $400,000 transfer and the next transfer that Councilmember Nand
planned to propose for approximately $500,000, explaining when the mayor's original budget included a
transfer of $2 million, the council asked for evidence that that was legal to do. Staff inquired of the City's
bond council Marc Greenough who suggested these motions to propose what was in the original budget in
a more palatable way.
Councilmember Buckshnis relayed obviously the desire is to increase the General Fund balance; bond
counsel has suggested utilizing expenses for remodeling. She asked the source of the $500,000. Mr. Turley
said the bonds have to be used for capital projects; Mr. Greenough suggested since the bond payments have
been made out of the General Fund, the interest portion of the bond could have been paid from the bond
proceeds. Mr. Greenough suggested moving $500,000 from General Fund to 016 which represents the
interest paid on the bonds. Councilmember Buckshnis said that made sense. She recalled $1 million was
paid from Fund 016 last year and Councilmember Chen said only $400,000 had been paid this year.
Councilmember Nand said she was sorry to hear about Mr. Turley's family emergency. She asked if the
deputy director would be available to work with her and possibly public works to identify specific
expenditures and related projects to answer council questions before tomorrow. Ms. Dunscombe answered
she would be.
Council President Tibbott commented as council moved through the amendments, he recalled the intent
was to create a spreadsheet that showed the impact on the General Fund at the end of the year. He was
unsure who would prepare that spreadsheet. Mr. Turley advised the council's legislative assistant was
working on that and will work with Ms. Dunscombe tomorrow to update it. He noted some of the
amendments were complex which makes it difficult to update the spreadsheet.
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 22
Councilmember Chen provided a point of information, the September 2023 financial report YTD actual
spending for Fund 016 is $229,888, which is less than $400,000. Mr. Turley said the $400,000 was paid
out of the General Fund not Fund 016 which is why those expenditures are not shown in Fund 016.
Councilmember Paine requested the information be entailed to all councilmembers.
Councilmember Buckshnis asked if there would be a spreadsheet provided tomorrow on the screen so the
public can see what is going on and asked when the council will start going through the decision packages
in the budget book. Council President Tibbott said the intent is to have the spreadsheet available. He was
unsure why council would go through every decision package in the budget book; councilmembers looked
carefully at the packages that impact the General Fund. The council has been discussing amendments to the
decision package, removing and reducing them and those will be reflected on the spreadsheet.
Councilmember Nand referred to budget book page 20 where the beginning fund balance for the building
maintenance Fund 016 is $3,239,084. These are expenditures that the bond council and Mr. Turley
identified that could have been debited from this account. The 2024 column $112,290 would be much
higher and reflective of expenses that could have been debited from Fund 016. Mr. Turley provided her this
information based on a request she sent him immediately before the meeting which is why it wasn't emailed
to the entire council.
7. ADJOURNMENT
With no further business, the Council meeting was adjourned at 8:37 pm.
CS:
SCOTT PASS Ey; CLERK
Edmonds City Council Approved Minutes
December 4, 2023
Page 23