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19820928 City Council Minutes• September 28, 1982 - Continued W, The regular meeting of the Edmonds City Council was called to order at 7:35 p.m. by Mayor Harve Harrison in the Council Chambers of`the Edmonds Civic Center. All present joinedinthe flag salute. PRESENT STAFF PRE3E-NT Harve Harrison, Mayor Irene Varney Moran, City Clerk John Nordquist Mary Lou Block, Planning Director Laura Hall Art Housler, Finance Director Bill Kasper Gary McComas, Fire.Marshal Katherine Alien Steve. Simpson, Parks & Recreation Director Ray Gould Wayne Tanaka, City Attorney Jo -Anne Jaech Mark Eames, City Attorney Larry Nauqhten Teresa Quigley, Recording Secretary Mayor Harrison recognized Carlie Jennings, Edmonds' Warrant/Probation Officer, for winning first place in the 13th Washington.State Peace Officers' Golf Tournament sponsored by the Island County Deputy Sheriffs' Guild. CONSENT AGENDA Item (D) was removed from the Consent Agenda. COUNCILMEMBER ALLEN MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER KASPER, TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA. MOTION CARRIED. The approved items on the Consent Agenda included the following: (A) Roll call. (8) Approval of Minutes of September 21, 1982.* (C) Acknowledgment of receipt of Claim for Damages from Gary J. Coppage, 1058 Daley St., Edmonds, in the amount of $85.74. PROPOSED RESOLUiION AUTHORIZING BANK LOAN FOR FIRE.TRUCK i Item (D) on' Consent Agenda Councilmember Jaech stated that she had pulled this item from the Consent Agenda in order to insert the interest- rate of 9.75% in the resolution. COUNCILMEMBER JAECH MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER HALL, TO PASS RESOLUTION 533, AUTHORIZING THE BANK LOAN FOR THE FIRE TRACK, WITH THE INSERTION OF A 9.75% INTEREST RATE. MOTI014 CARRIED. Councilmember Naughten noted that a correction should.be made on, page 8 of the September 21, 1982 Council Minutes regarding budgeting of funds for the National League of Cities Conference. Councilmember Kasper advised that he had intended authorization to be given for attendance of one Councilmember only. COUNCILMEMBER NAUGHTEN MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER GOULD, TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 21, 1982 WITH THIS CORRECTION. MOTION CARRIED. (In addition, a memorandum had been issued to the Councilmembers and Mayor noting that a portion of the following motion had been inadvertently omitted on page 6 of the September 21,1982 Council Minutes. The notion should have read in full: "COUNCILMEMBER ALLEN MOVE., SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER JAE:CH, THAT A 3-HOUR PARKING RESTRUCTION BE ESTABLISHED ON"ALL OF BELL_ ST. AND EDMONDS ST. FROM SUNSET AVE. TO 3RD AVE. AND ON ALL OF 2ND AVE. AND 3RD AVE. FROM THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT TO CASPERS ST., FROM 3:00 A.M. TO 6:00 P.M. EXCEPT FOR SUNDAYS AND HOLIDAYS. MOTION CARRIED.") MEETING WITH PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD As this meeting was set up primarily for Council discussion ,�tith the Planninp, Advisory Board, Mayor Harrison invited the fol'iowing PAB members to join the Council: Ray Sittauer, John'McGihbon, Ward Phillips, Ken Mattson, John Hodgin, David Larson, and. Valina Walker. • Councilmember Gould opened the discussion by suggesting that the problems between the Council and the Planning Advisory Board be identified openly, then both work toward r_ossible solutions. Also, that discussion should be.kept issue -oriented, rather than people -oriented. Councilmember Hall indicated that the main problem was confusion on the part of both groups as to what the Board's functions are. Ray Sittauer said that the Board has recommended changing the Council de novo hearing to a Planning Advisory Board record hearing. It has also been recommended that the Board's name be changed to omit the word "Advisory." Councilmember Allen indicated that the Council may be read) to change the de novo hearing. She said that she felt the board wanted to change its name because they felt the Council was not takinc their advice. Ray Sittauer said the name change might give the board'a little more "clout." Dave Larson said that perhaps.people feel it is unnecessary to apneas before the Board as they perceive it as serving only an advisory function. J. Ward Phillips stared that 'in most cities the planning croup is simply called a commission or board, and he felt the change was appropriate. Councilmember Allen stated that for those reasons she would accept the channge. Councilmember Naughten reflected that when he served on the Planning Commission it was frustrating because people did not attend the Commission meetings, and he asked Vthether the Coard felt a change in name would ,elp. 0 IZ September 28, 1983 - continued • Ray Sittauer responded that he felt it would make some difference. He said that a change in the de novo hearing would also help draw people'to the Board meetings. He stated that when people bring new evidence on a planning issue to the Council the Council should send them back to the Board; otherwise, there is no reason to.have the Board. Councilmember Allen agreed. Councilmember Naughten stated that the same problem existed with the Planning Commission, and Mr. Sittauer said that it is more of a problem now. Councilmember Hall agreed that there i.s value in the Council hearing and making decisions based on the same set of evidence that the Board has been given. Councilmember Kasper said the Board's hearings should be considered final, and he recognized that this practice has not been followed. He stated that because of new evidence given to the Council some issues have had to be sent.back to the Board for a third hearing or poor decisions have been made by the Council. David Larson agreed that many issues have had three to four hearings, because testimony is given at a Council meeting following the Board's hearings, then it is remanded to the Board, with a final decision to be made at another Council meeting. He cited examples of: (1) parking on Sunset Ave.; (2) landscaping around the Frances Anderson Center; and (3).lighting on the Junior High playfield. He recommended that the Council tell people immediately that their evidence should be given to the Board, then the Council will make their decision following a review .of the Board's recommendation. He said that items should properly come before the Board for the first hearing, not the second hearing. Councilmember Kasper stated that.people often bring their issues up under "Audience Participation," and the Council almost has.to hear them before they can decide what to do. Councilmember Naughten added that the Council normally does not make final decisions on a planning issue during audience participation. David Larson and J. Ward Phil.lips asked why the Council could not tell the people immediately that their presentation should properly be given before the Board. They said that the people have been conditioned to bring their concerns up during the Council's audience participation and a new procedure should be established. They said the Board is looking for,ways to help the Council, also. Councilmember Naughten said that first the Council must understand exactly what the Board has been commissioned.to do, then they will know what should be referred to the Board. J. Ward Phillips and David Larson.agreed. Mr. Larson said that the Board wears at least three hats serving as the Park Board, Downtown.Parking.Commission, and Planning Board. Mr. Phillips indicated that the Council is handling a lot.of things that the Board.'should be working on. He asked the Council what role they felt the Board.sh.ould play, and Councilmember Allen stated that the Council is unsure. Councilmembers Gould and Jaech stated that as elected officials they feel they are obligated to hear what the citizens have to say. Councilmember Jaech said. that she sees the Board as strictly an advisory unit that does research through coordination with the Staff and puts recommendations together for -the Council to review and decide on. David Larson said that the Board does..not research or compile information; that they examine the Staff's report just like the Council does and make a recommendation from that. Councilmember Gould asked why the Board felt people do not attend their meetings. He said he felt the people were coming to the Council rather than the Board because the people do not feel the Board is representative of them. He asked what could be done to get more public input to the Board, so their recommendations could be more representative of the citizens. J. Ward Phillips restated the Board's recommendations to change the hearing procedure, the name of. the Board, and for a clear understanding of the Board's functions. Councilmember Jaech said that citizens have told her that the Board does not listen to what they have to say, and she felt the same way when she attended Board meetings as a citizen. David Larson said that people have that perception due to the,oldPlanning Commission. The Board concurred that surveys are not a valid means of determining how the majority of the citizens feel. J. Ward Phillips said that surveys can be biased. He added that with all of his associations with citizens he has not heard that they are not coming to the Board because the Board is not listening to them. Councilmember Hall agreed with sending people back to the Board with new information after the Council has heard them. She said that what people mean when they say the Board does not listen to them is that.the Board does not make the decision that the people want. David.Larson concurred. He said.that he may disagree with the people at times, but'he does listen to them. Councilmember Hall said there is a recognizable difference between the Council and the Board, because the Council is elected and the Board is appointed. She said that even though she may vote to overturn the Board's recommendation, she appreciates the effort the Board makes to come up with a recommendation that they feel is best for the City. She said that the Council also has to take into consideration what the people concerned in an issue want. Councilmember Gould said he felt it was important in order for the Board to represent the City adequately that the.members be geographically distributed across the City. He said in his opinion this does not exist in the present Board. 1 1 • 1 25" • September 28, 1982 - continued J. bard Phi iiips saki that. th:e Goard agrees with this thinking, taut it is the Council that makes the appointrients. Councilmember Kasper noted that initially the Council selected three former chairmen to get the Board going, and as members leave they try to replace h.erf! from uif'�erent areas of the City. John Eodgi n, asked whether, there is interest fror^ citizens in outlying areas to serve on the Board, and Councilmember Kasper responded ;,hat interest normally develops where the impOrtant issues are. Councilmember Gould said he felt.the Board would also be more representative of the City if the members were occupationally t•:idely distributes: and there were some younger members. J. Ward Phi -flips said the..Board also feels that diversity of background in Board members is critical. He said iU wou 1 s be ni cc -; o have a younger person on the ' F Card who wou I G shop, up regul arly and, be contributory. He said, however, that a persor, serving in a courtesy position would hinder the process. He added that some kind of experience in tracking is necessary in order for a member to be valuable. Councilmember Hall noted that the present Board does have a wide diversity of backgrounds. Ken P'attson said there would probably always be a conflict due to difference in philosophies; that the Board decides what is best according to the Code book, and the Council decides what is going to be most acceptable from the popul-ar standpoint. Councilmember Gould asked why the Board could not make recommendations based upon both the regulations and the people's feelings, and Mr. Mattson asked how this could be done fairly. • John McGibbon said the Board.tries to -look at both views. However, they may honestly feel that the rilajority of the people at a hearing are not correct. He indicated that those people who attend the hearings may not accurately reflect the feelings of the majority of the citizens. David Larson said the Board wouid.like to have more staff research but is not comfortable in asking for staff time. He said lie would like to see it budgeted for next year. Councilmember Jaech agreed and recommended that the Board give the Council a list of proposed projects for 1982 along with any projected expenses. Valina Walker said that Board members do not want to devote a considerable amount of time to'projects unless the Council is going to review the date gathered carefully and give consideration to their proposal over and above the feelings of the citizens who attend the hearings. Counciimerfiber Gould suggested pooling the Council's and Board's projects, working together to prioritize them, and then seeing how they would fit into the budget. Councilmember Hall noted that the Board members not only donate their time, but they spend quite a bit for gasoline making site inspections, etc. J. Ward Phillips stated that the Board does not always base their decisions on majority cf-opinion, but rather on what it feels is the total responsibility from a planning standpoint. He. cited lighting of the playfield as an example. He said that when a group.of people comes in stronger at the Council level than at the Board level he can foresee,.by the nature of the Council's being_ political, that they may use a different set of parameters from which to draw their conclusions. He said that is where the relationship between. the Council and the Board breaks down, and he asked if there was net someway they could dovetail their processes. • Councilmember Gould stated that the Council does not always go the political way, citing the Sunset Ave. parking issue as an example. He said thekey to working together is to draw adequate public input on issues. He suggested holding public workshops or community meetings as done in the past. Councilmember Kasper stated that he feels citizens may perceive the present Board as serving in that old role, and they may not realize that the Board actually makes important recommendations that could be finalized by the Council. Councilmember Gould stated.that is wh.y he is not ready for a change in the de novo hearing, even on a trial basis. He said r�iore citizen input at the Board level is required to make a valid recom- mendation, and he wants to see improvement. J. Ward.Phi'llips responded that the Council is empowered to give responsibility to the Boards, and he feels that some of the Council cannot let go. He said that if the Council cannot delegate the responsibility, the Board is not needed. He said that the Board is trying to draw iio re public input througi; its recorixriendations for changinq the de novo hearing, etc. John McGibbon stated that the majority of the Board feels that their record will not imoro;�e as lcnc as the hearing is de novo, but lie.does not agree. He said he feels the Pyard hears rr.cst of the v opinions and arguments of the citizens. He asked what it would take to convince i;he Council that the Board has gathered sufficient public input to support their recommendations, and Councilmember Gould stated that it would .be hard for him -to stipulate. Councilmember Kasper stated that there should be more citizen involvement prior to the initial Board nearing. He said this occurs only with major issues. He added that the people who do.at:tendrhe hearings are localized and may not reflect the opinions of the public as a whole. Mayor Harriso•;; entertained a motion to.change the Council de novo hearing to a ^'anning Advisory Board record hearing, and Councilmember Jaech reminded him that the Council of Concerned Citizens had been assured that no decision would be made until the Council talked to the Board and other • citizen groups.and.had time to digeest all of the opinions. 26 September 28, 1982 - continued > • Valina Walker stated that she feels.the'Council of Concerned Citizens takes exception to a lot of the things that the Board does, and,the Council is legitimizing their position by having a special meeting for them to air their grievances. John Hodgin asked what the Board has to do to earn its credibility. Councilmember Nordquist stated that the Board'.s reporting system could be improved. He said the Board minutes leave out a lot of important information and do not always state what actually hap- pened in the meeting. David Larson agreed and said the minutes should improve now that Mary Lou Block has been assigned to • the Board meetings. J. Ward Phillips indicated that,the underlying problem is that various Councilmembers at given times do not have enough confidence in the Board's process in order to.delegate authority. He added that the Board is a victim, of that lack of -confidence. Councilmember Hall suggested that each Councilmember attend a few Board meetings to become familiar with the Board's process and see if it is meeting the Council's expectations. She added that she did not know what those expectations are. Councilmember Allen questioned how the Hearing Examiner process was established, as his recommendations are rarely overturned by the Council. John McGibbon explained that the Hearing Examiner's activities do not go before the Council unless there is an appeal. He said that whereas the Board's function is to recommend to the Council, the • Hearing Examiner's function is to make quasi-judicial decisions which may be appealed. He said the Council does not really care unless there is an appeal. Councilmember Jaech said they have confidence in the Hearing Examiner because most of his cases are not appealed. She said this was due to the fact that he deals with the public in a responsive manner. A recess was announced. Mayor Harrison again enteretained a motion to change the de novo hearing, and Councilmember Naughten responded that the Council is not ready to do that. He said the Council must first understand what the Board's responsibilities are.so:issues can be referred back to the Board when necessary. Councilmember Allen said it would be helpful to have Findings of Fact included with the Board minutes. She said, in turn, the. Council should place confidence in those Findings of Fact and the Board's recommendations. She also said the Council needs to be aware of what the Board has been set up to do. She added that it would save the Council a lot of time. Ken Mattson asked how responsive the. Board should be to the popular.vote, and Councilmember Allen stated perhaps the Board should go strictly by the Code and leave it up to the Council to react to the feelings of the citizens. She said it would be up to the Board to make that decision. She added that the two different philosophies need not be diametrically opposite. Mr. Mattson said if the Council is going to be totally responsive to the public there is no need for a Code book or Planning Board. David Larson stated that the Board is working very hard to avoid excessive hearings. He noted an incident where the Staff made one recommendation to the Board and a different recommendation to the Council. It was clarified that the Council does receive.Findings of -Fact from the Board on rezones only. Mr.: Larson recommended that all of the Board minutes include Findings of Fact, conclusions, recommendations, and perhaps some discussion. He also recommended that a City Attorney be present at all of the Board meetings. • Ken Mattson suggested another option would be to schedule work meetings for important subjects that cannot be.communicated in minutes. Councilmember Allen stated that more precise minutes would help, and conversely the Council should be more explanatory when it overturns a Board recommendation. Mayor Harrison entertained a motion regarding the change in the Board's name. The reasons for this recommendation were again discussed. COUNCILMEMBER HALL MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER NAUGHTEN, THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY BE INSTRUCTED TO DRAW UP AN ORDINANCE CHANGING THE NAME OF THE PLANNING ADVISORY BOARD TO "PLANNING BOARD." MOTION CARRIED. Councilmember Hall suggested that the agendas of the Planning Board be published in the paper, and Councilmember Allen asked how much it would cost. City Clerk Irene Varney Moran said it costs approximately $100 per week for Council agenda publishings and it would probably be less than half that for PAB'.agendas. David Larson said the Board is going to work with the Staff to make the agenda more descriptive. Councilmember Gould asked about neighborhood postings, and Planning Director Mary Lou Block advised that it would be too difficult as most of the issues affect the whole. town. Councilmember Allen suggested adding a stipulation to the motion regarding availability of funds, and Councilmember Jaech said that approval should be given for the remainder of 1982 and that funding for 1983 would be considered in'the budget process. Following further discussion, COUNCILMEMBER HALL MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER ALLEN, TO AUTHORIZE PUBLICATION OF THE PLANNING BOARD AGENDA IN THE HERALD BI-MONTHLY THROUGH THE END OF 1982, SUBJECT TO THE AVAILABILITY OF FUNDING. MOTION CARRIED. The Board's workload again was discussed, and it was agreed that the Planning Staff, Planning Board, and Council would draw up a list of projects and then prioritize them. Any expenses will be identified 27 • September 28, 1982 - continued immediately for budget purposes. Also., Board requests for staff help should be directed to the Mayor. David Larson emphasized the value of utilizing ad hoc citizen committees and groups such as the garden clubs and Senior Citizen Center for Planning and Park projects. Others concurred. Mayor Harrison thanked the Board members for attending this meeting, and everyone agreed that the discussion was valuable. COUNCIL Councilmember Allen thanked the Finance Department for answering her questions last week, and she asked for an explanation of Item 614 on page 12 of the.Investment Activities Report. Councilmember Jaech said she would get an answer for .her at the next FinanceCommittee meeting. Councilmember Allen acknowledged additional letters that have been received expressing..appreciation for the beautiful landscaping in the City. Councilmember Jaech went over items discussed at the. Finance Committee meeting earlier this evening. She noted that no decision had been made on the water reading proposal and that more research will be done regarding maintenance of parking strips. She reported that the Finance Committee had reviewed the additional funding requests for Library projects totalling $44,100 and, of that, $15,400 was approved. COUNCILMEMBER KASPER MOVED, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER NORDQUIST, THAT THIS LIST BE ADOPTED AS APPROVED BY THE FINANCE COMMITTEE. (List will be filed with the City Clerk.) MOTION CARRIED. Councilmember Jaech advised that another Finance Committee meeting would be held next week. Councilmember Jaech referred to a.memorandum from the Mayor in which he said he would personally be willing to purchase a lot that the City has.for sale, as no one else has bid on it. She said that due to conflict of interest she felt this may not be possible. COUNCILMEMBER JAECH MOVED, SECONDED . BY COUNCILMEMBER GOULD, THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY BE DIRECTED TO GIVE THE COUNCIL A WRITTEN OPINION ON THIS ISSUE IN THE OCTOBER 5, 1982 COUNCIL PACKETS. MOTION CARRIED. Councilmember Naughten complimented Chairman Kasper for his efforts in expressing the Council's concerns to the Harbor and Port. Councilmember Naughten complimented the Staff for preparation of the Council/Staff Retreat synopsis. Councilmember Nordquist thanked Mayor Harrison for his comments regarding the Sno-Isle Library District contract with the City of Edmonds. He said, however, that he felt anothr meeting should be held with Mae Schoenrock to discuss this issue. Councilmember Kasper stated that he would arrange to have Ms. Schoenrock attend a Finance Committee meeting in October. There was no further business to come before the Council, and the meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m. "7 IRENE VARNEY MORAN, Ci 0 Clerk HARVE H. HARRISON, Mayor •